shoptalk-digest Thursday, 10 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 018


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From: Don Markward <Markward@coastalnet.com>
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 22:40:18 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: COMPONENT SEARCH

I built a set of Golfsmith Texas Clasic irons and have lost my 8 iron.
They have been discontinued and I would like to replace it. Anyone know
where I can get another? Thanks.

------------------------------

From: Chuck West <chuckw1@airmail.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 96 22:57:50 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: To Re-Shaft Or Not To Re-Shaft

At 04:45 PM 10/5/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello,
>Does anyone know if there is more than one golf club maker that goes under
>the name "Precision"?

He also said that he
>would "not recommend anyone re-shaft graphite clubs, unless they're willing
>to invest a couple of hundred dollars in equipment. Poor hosel &/or shaft
>preparation can easily cause shafts to break.
>
>What are the dangers of re-shafting graphite clubs oneself (without
>spending a couple of hundred dollars)? Am I a fool to consider it?

>Thanks,
>Michael Duey
>
I always cone my club heads before I shaft them. If you are replacing a
graphite shaft, the head should already be coned. However, removing the head
and cleaning out the hosel does require some tools and knowledge of
clubmaking. The equipment to properly do the job (along with Epoxy, etc.) is
probably too expensive if you are only going to resaft a couple of clubs and
not use them again. Your best bet is to look around your area for a
clubmaker to handle the job. It would probably cost less to do the job right.


------------------------------

From: Chuck West <chuckw1@airmail.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 96 23:03:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Too Tall To Fit

At 07:29 PM 10/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Any ideas on making clubs, irons and woods, for someone who is 6ft-9in with
>a finger to floor reach of 33 inches. The normal starting lenght of irons,
>41inches, is already to short.
>Scott Fishel
>
If you use the theory of 1/4 inch for each inch over the 27 inch mark,
someone at 33 inches is only 1 & 1/2 inch over standard which could easily
be fit with standard shafts. Someone as tall as you mention, 2 inches over
standard may be more suitable though.

------------------------------

From: Chuck West <chuckw1@airmail.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 96 23:09:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Taylor Made Bubble Shafts

At 09:23 PM 10/2/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Can the common folk buy Taylor Made bubble shafts?
>
>Thanks
>
>Sue or Joe Rodriguez
>jfrodriguez@jfrodriguez.seanet.com
>
Not to my knowledge. There are many look alikes that play similar. I use the
XPC Bulge from Golfsmith with good success.

------------------------------

From: Chuck West <chuckw1@airmail.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 96 23:13:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Titanium Driver Suggestions

At 09:23 PM 10/2/96 -0700, you wrote:
>I am interested in building a Titanium driver ala Taylor Made versions.
>Does anyone have a suggested source and model that they would recommend?
>I'm interested in using a Graphite shaft. I play to a 12 so a "lite" shaft
>is not a necessity.
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Sue or Joe Rodriguez
>jfrodriguez@jfrodriguez.seanet.com
>
I personnaly like the looks of the Golfsmith Titaniuim 260 ($135). It only
comes in an 11 degree loft which is a problem for me. It looks good with an
XPC Bulge shaft (Golfsmith again).

------------------------------

From: mpace@juno.com (Morgan W Pace)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 06:07:20 PST
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: COMPONENT SEARCH

On Sun, 06 Oct 1996 22:40:18 -0700 Don Markward <Markward@coastalnet.com>
writes:
>I built a set of Golfsmith Texas Clasic irons and have lost my 8 iron.
>
>They have been discontinued and I would like to replace it. Anyone
>know
>where I can get another? Thanks.
>
Jon's Golf Shop in San Antonio (210) 821 6207 and Instant Replay in
Austin (512) 454 6111 both stock a good number of single, used clubs and
they will both box and ship.

Good luck -- Mpace


------------------------------

From: "Vince Burkis" <Celtics72@msn.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 96 13:59:47 UT
Subject: RE: ShopTalk: To Re-Shaft Or Not To Re-Shaft

Suppose you resifted a club yourself and while using it, the head flew off and
hit somebody causing them serious harm or worse.... Are you prepared to
suffer the consequences, lawsuits, etc... That's the severest case...

Clubmaker's can and should have liability insurance in they are in the
business of making sets for the public. As for those who are doing it as a
hobby and just one or two here and there - you do take a risk!

I purchased a driver from Bobby Mann's outfit. In the second year of use, the
head flew off at impact and traveled down the fairway seventy five yards. I
also made a drive myself and the shaft severed at the hosel. In both cases no
damage was done.

These are rare occurrences, but things happen. While it's fun as well as
economical to make clubs, you should be aware of the ramifications.

More important, you need to know that you are using the correct techniques
when doing so. That means having the right knowledge and yes, the right
equipment.

Hope this helps.

- ----------
From: owner-shoptalk@conch.aa.msen.com on behalf of Michael Duey
Sent: Sat, October 05, 1996 7:45 PM
To: shoptalk@conch.aa.msen.com
Subject: ShopTalk: To Re-Shaft Or Not To Re-Shaft

Hello,
Does anyone know if there is more than one golf club maker that goes under
the name "Precision"? I have e-mailed Jim Bopp at Precision Golf Company
with the name and description of my broken clubs (which say Precision
Series II on
them) and he denies ever hearing of such a club. He also said that he
would "not recommend anyone re-shaft graphite clubs, unless they're willing
to invest a couple of hundred dollars in equipment. Poor hosel &/or shaft
preparation can easily cause shafts to break. Your clubs, frankly, do not
appear to have been made by a professional." (That's because some of the
shafts broke, I assume.)

What are the dangers of re-shafting graphite clubs oneself (without
spending a couple of hundred dollars)? Am I a fool to consider it?
Where/Who is the other Precision golf club maker? I would sure appreciate
some comments, advice or opinions.

Thanks,
Michael Duey
miked@dcn.davis.ca.us



------------------------------

From: "Vince Burkis" <Celtics72@msn.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 96 13:50:54 UT
Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Too Tall To Fit

I don't have much faith in finger tip to floor measurements. At best, they
can only be used as a starting point.

In my opinion, you really need a set of test drivers, each increasing in
length by 1/2 increments. Next, you need a bunch of impact stickers and a
trip to the driving range.

Put an impact sticker on each driver and allow the individual to hit several
shots with each club. The club that feels comfortable and has the ball impact
nearest the sweetspot should be the proper lenght for that individual.

Repeat the above with a test set of 5 irons. Once complete, you should have
the information you need to determine the appropriate length for a complete
set of irons and woods.

------------------------------

From: "Hasenzahl, Chris" <hasenzahl@strasys.mdc.com>
Date: 7 Oct 1996 07:16:08 -0800
Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Too Tall To Fit

>From my archives, hope it helps.
________________________________________________________________________________

From: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com
Date: Thu, May 16, 1996 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: ShopTalk: fitting tall golfer

The reason I started making clubs is because I'm 6' 6". For reference, my
fingertips measure 32" from the floor, 39.5" from the heel, and I wear an extra
large glove. The three factors I've experimented with are length, lie, and
grip size.

I've read that many tall golfers tend to have an upright stance. This may well
be due to their having to make due with standard size clubs when learning the
game. To compensate for a club that was too short the tall golfer will tend to
hold it more upright. A new golfer may not have these tendencies if fit
properly from the beginning.

At a clinic taught by Hank Haney (former PGA instructor of the year), Mr. Haney
told me to go with 1.5" over standard length and 4 degrees upright. I had
Golfsmith Tour Model IV irons that I had ordered 2 degrees upright. However
through normal use they had gone quite flat. Mr. Haney told me NEVER buy
anything called "Tour Model" (not just Golfsmith). He had seen the same thing
before in other Golsmith products too.

It's not too difficult to order clubs two degrees upright, but 4 degrees is a
problem. Most shops will not bend more than two degrees. I have subsequently
ordered the Dynacraft Cavity Back model, available in a 2 degree upright, and
had them bent an additional two degees upright. Though I don't have a loft/lie
machine with which to make accurate measurements, the rough measurements I have
made show that the irons have flattened a degree or two. I suspect there is
some "metal memory" at work on clubs that have been bent. The force of the
swing as well is trying to flatten the club.

A exchange factor for club length vs. lie is 3/8" for every degree (shorter for
upright, longer for flattened). Changing the length will affect both
swingweight and stiffness. According to Maltby's books, you should go up one
grade in stiffness when adding as much length as we are in this example. E.g.
a stiff shaft 2" over standard will have the effective flex of a regular shaft.
There isn't a whole lot you can do for swingweight. My clubs weigh out
approximately D8. Golfworks carries clubheads with variable weighting ports.
I've been going to inquire what the raw weight of the heads are to see if they
are light enough to bring things back to a standard swingweight, but haven't
yet. I suspect I couldn't get them 4 degrees upright anyway, and the lie is
more important to me than swingweight.

For putter length, have the golfer hold a standard length putter in a stance
that's comfortable. Add enough length to allow that stance. I have lengthened
my putter much more than my other clubs.

The grip size is something that has a big effect for me. A standard size grip
feels very small and slippery in large hands. It would be comparable to an
average size golfer trying to swing a shaft with no grip. With a grip that's
too small, the golfer tends to grip the club too tightly to maintain control.
I had been using the Golf Pride arthritic grips (1/8" over). According to the
grip rules, these were properly sized, i.e. the fingertips just touch the heel
of the hand. However in practice they were too large. As the books say, what
feels best is probably a bit too large. Avon makes an arthritic grip that's
3/32' oversized. Golf Pride now makes a grip that is 1/16 over which I find
fits well. You can use build-up tape under the grip, but that's a real pain
when it comes to regripping. The large putter grips help too.

_______________________________________________________________________________
From: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com on Mon, Oct 7, 1996 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Too Tall To Fit
To: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com

At 07:29 PM 10/4/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Any ideas on making clubs, irons and woods, for someone who is 6ft-9in with
>a finger to floor reach of 33 inches. The normal starting lenght of irons,
>41inches, is already to short.
>Scott Fishel
>
If you use the theory of 1/4 inch for each inch over the 27 inch mark,
someone at 33 inches is only 1 & 1/2 inch over standard which could easily
be fit with standard shafts. Someone as tall as you mention, 2 inches over
standard may be more suitable though.

------------------------------

From: "DR. L.G. LEDUC" <LLEDUC@NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 23:26:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: ShopTalk: Impex and Acer Clubheads

I'm seriously considering the purchase of Acer Jumbo or Impex wood
heads.

If you've had some experience with these heads, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

Leo G. Leduc
lleduc@nickel.laurentian.ca

------------------------------

From: "DR. L.G. LEDUC" <LLEDUC@NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 23:33:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: ShopTalk: Epoxy Question

What position should the club be in when the epoxy is drying? Do you
leave it horizontal in the clamp or do you stand it upright? I'm trying to
avoid an uneven coat of epoxy because of the improper positioning of the club
during the drying process.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Leo G. Leduc
lleduc@nickel.laurentian.ca

------------------------------

From: djmiller@wolf.co.net (Daniel J. Miller)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 01:12:05 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Titanium Driver Suggestions

>At 09:23 PM 10/2/96 -0700, you wrote:
>>I am interested in building a Titanium driver ala Taylor Made versions.
>>Does anyone have a suggested source and model that they would recommend?
>>I'm interested in using a Graphite shaft. I play to a 12 so a "lite" shaft
>>is not a necessity.
>>
>>Thanks in advance
>>
>>Sue or Joe Rodriguez
>>jfrodriguez@jfrodriguez.seanet.com
>>
>I personnaly like the looks of the Golfsmith Titaniuim 260 ($135). It only
>comes in an 11 degree loft which is a problem for me. It looks good with an
>XPC Bulge shaft (Golfsmith again).
>
>
Chuck,

I have built two Golfsmith Titanium 260's. The last time I ordered one,
they asked if I wanted the 11 degree or the 9.5 degree. You may want to
call them to verify that they do have a new choice!

Dan
djm


------------------------------

From: Chuck West <chuckw1@airmail.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 96 23:57:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Epoxy Question

At 11:33 PM 10/7/96 -0500, you wrote:
>What position should the club be in when the epoxy is drying? Do you
>leave it horizontal in the clamp or do you stand it upright? I'm trying to
>avoid an uneven coat of epoxy because of the improper positioning of the club
>during the drying process.
>
>Thanks in advance for your advice.
>
>Leo G. Leduc
>lleduc@nickel.laurentian.ca
>
Very good question. I've never actually heard a definitive answer to this
question, but I can tell you what I do. For most club heads, I leave the
club as close as possible to upright (the clubhead on my bench, end of shaft
leaning against the wall). This way I can line up any markings on the shaft
with the club head and also ensure that the clubhead doesn't start to slip
off. With some large metal wood heads that are hollow, it is best to lay
them horizontal to prevent epoxy from dripping into the clubhead to become
rattles later.

------------------------------

From: Chuck West <chuckw1@airmail.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 96 00:17:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Titanium Driver Suggestions

At 01:12 AM 10/8/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 09:23 PM 10/2/96 -0700, you wrote:
>>>I am interested in building a Titanium driver ala Taylor Made versions.
>>>Does anyone have a suggested source and model that they would recommend?
>>>I'm interested in using a Graphite shaft. I play to a 12 so a "lite" shaft
>>>is not a necessity.
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance
>>>
>>>Sue or Joe Rodriguez
>>>jfrodriguez@jfrodriguez.seanet.com
>>>
>>I personnaly like the looks of the Golfsmith Titaniuim 260 ($135). It only
>>comes in an 11 degree loft which is a problem for me. It looks good with an
>>XPC Bulge shaft (Golfsmith again).
>>
>>
>Chuck,
>
>I have built two Golfsmith Titanium 260's. The last time I ordered one,
>they asked if I wanted the 11 degree or the 9.5 degree. You may want to
>call them to verify that they do have a new choice!
>
>Dan
>djm
>
Thanks, I'll check.

------------------------------

From: "Luc Despars" <Luc.Despars@space.gc.ca>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 96 8:48:29 EDT
Subject: re: ShopTalk: Impex and Acer Clubheads

Leo,

I have assembled many sets with Impex wood heads and Acer heads. I
have never assembled the Acer Jumbo. Personally, I had a lot of problems
with my supplier (Golf Option). It seems that the Acer heads were always
back order. I had to wait two months for a 9.5 degree driver. The results
from the Impex woods are a little bit deceiving. This is a KC look alike
but they sound weird when you hit them.

Luc Despars
Proud Member of the International Space Station Program

luc.despars@space.gc.ca
St-Hubert, Quebec, Canada
- -------------
Original Text
From: "DR. L.G. LEDUC" <LLEDUC@NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA>, on 10/7/96 11:26 PM:
I'm seriously considering the purchase of Acer Jumbo or Impex wood
heads.

If you've had some experience with these heads, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

Leo G. Leduc
lleduc@nickel.laurentian.ca

------------------------------

From: mpace@juno.com (Morgan W Pace)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 17:07:47 PST
Subject: ShopTalk: Steel shaft matching

I am trying to find a matching shaft (steel) for a MacGregor wood with
label that reads:
Tour Step (2) Lightweight. The shaft has progressive steps, beginning at
about 7/8 th of and inch and progressing up to about 1 5/16 inch. The
third step from the top is shorter than the steps on either side of it,
it's about 1 1/8 th inch. At first glance I thought it might be a TT
Gold Plus, but I can't match it up with anything I have but I am not
familiar with Brunswick , Apollo or other manufacturers.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. ------ Mpace

------------------------------

From: Alan Cooper <100422.1233@compuserve.com>
Date: 09 Oct 96 12:23:37 EDT
Subject: ShopTalk: Bad Vibrations

I am looking for Golfsmith club components with maximum shock/vibration
dampening qualities and would appreciate any recommendations on possible grip,
shaft and head combinations (irons & woods).
Also, can anyone offer an opinion on the comparitive dampening characteristics
of the following shafts:

TT Stratus
TT Truelite with Powerbilt Shock Relief insert
Graphite shaft with Powerbilt Shock Relief insert

My elbows and I would be grateful for any advice.


------------------------------

From: Tedd Childers <Tedd_Childers@ncsu.edu>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 96 15:19:51 EDT
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Bad Vibrations

At 12:23 PM 10/9/96 EDT, you wrote:
>I am looking for Golfsmith club components with maximum shock/vibration
>dampening qualities and would appreciate any recommendations on possible grip,
>shaft and head combinations (irons & woods).
>Also, can anyone offer an opinion on the comparitive dampening characteristics
>of the following shafts:
>
> TT Stratus
> TT Truelite with Powerbilt Shock Relief insert
> Graphite shaft with Powerbilt Shock Relief insert
>
>My elbows and I would be grateful for any advice.
>
>
>Alan,

I have assembled a set of clubs for myself using the Brunswick Rifle shafts
and the Powerbilt SIMS Shock inserts, and have found that this combination
works very well. Even on the worst mishits, I don't feel any vibration. I
have hit shots near the hosel that would have numbed my fingers with the old
clubs, but now I don't ever get that numbing sensation. I also have built
clubs for friends using Apollo Original shafts (also stepless) without the
SIMS and found that stepless shafts alone give good shock absorption. I
would stay away from graphite just because of the inherent fragility and
inconsistency (unless you can get freq. matching as I mention below). My
recommendation for the absolute maximum in shock absorption would be a
stepless steel shaft (Apollo Original or Brunswick Rifle) with the Powerbilt
SIMS and the Winn grips. Be aware that the stepless shafts do have high
bend points, and tend to be designed for the better golfer. Information on
the Winn grips is available directly through Winn, but I don't have the
phone number. If you go to the Clubmaker on-line site, the owner has posted
an article on some Penicks made with the Rifle shaft, SIMS insert and Winn
grips. The drawbacks to the Winn grips are the cost ($7.00 each) and the
limited designs available and I have heard they are difficult to install.
If you want to try the Apollo Original shaft or TT shafts, contact Paul
Nickles at Raven Golf at 1-800-236-4566. They sell Apollo, True Temper, and
Raven shafts (including Stratus and Dynamic Gold with Sensicore) along with
some nice heads. BTW, the sensicore insert can be put into TT shafts other
than the Stratus! If you get the heads from Raven, Paul can frequency match
the clubs for you. In fact, he can frequency match graphite shafts also,
and they sell a nice Raven graphite iron shaft for $9.95 each. Good Luck,
and hit it straight.

Tedd


------------------------------

From: Chuck West <chuckw1@airmail.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 96 21:54:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Bad Vibrations

At 12:23 PM 10/9/96 EDT, you wrote:
>I am looking for Golfsmith club components with maximum shock/vibration
>dampening qualities and would appreciate any recommendations on possible grip,
>shaft and head combinations (irons & woods).
>Also, can anyone offer an opinion on the comparitive dampening characteristics
>of the following shafts:
>
> TT Stratus
> TT Truelite with Powerbilt Shock Relief insert
> Graphite shaft with Powerbilt Shock Relief insert
>
>My elbows and I would be grateful for any advice.
>
>I made a 6 iron demo club with the stratus shaft. You can definitely tell
the difference. The vibration is cut in about half, yet you still get the
feedback that I like from a steel shaft.

------------------------------

From: phil summers <phiglo@icenet.com.au>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:20:49 -0700
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Bad Vibrations

Chuck West wrote:
>
> At 12:23 PM 10/9/96 EDT, you wrote:
> >I am looking for Golfsmith club components with maximum shock/vibration
> >dampening qualities and would appreciate any recommendations on possible grip,
> >shaft and head combinations (irons & woods).
> >Also, can anyone offer an opinion on the comparitive dampening characteristics
> >of the following shafts:
> >
> > TT Stratus
> > TT Truelite with Powerbilt Shock Relief insert
> > Graphite shaft with Powerbilt Shock Relief insert
> >
> >My elbows and I would be grateful for any advice.
> >
> >I made a 6 iron demo club with the stratus shaft. You can definitely tell
> the difference. The vibration is cut in about half, yet you still get the
> feedback that I like from a steel shaft.

Chuck , you must be getting me mixed up with someone else as I never
sent that message, but never mind. i'ts very nice to meet yoy, and as I
have just begun the journey down the road to club making any advise is
greatfully received.

Thanks mate

phil Summers, Perth Western Australia

------------------------------

From: Tom Thurston <tomt@in.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:38:26 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Bad Vibrations

Alan Cooper wrote:
>
> I am looking for Golfsmith club components with maximum shock/vibration
> dampening qualities and would appreciate any recommendations on possible grip,
> shaft and head combinations (irons & woods).
> Also, can anyone offer an opinion on the comparitive dampening characteristics
> of the following shafts:
>
> TT Stratus
> TT Truelite with Powerbilt Shock Relief insert
> Graphite shaft with Powerbilt Shock Relief insert
>
> My elbows and I would be grateful for any advice.
>
> Allan,

I have used the Status shaft from True Temper and like it very much.

The fellow who answered you is absolutely correct, they is little, if any vibration at
the moment of impact.

When you become 55 you notice a few more pains than before.

You will get many different answers as each person has their own preference.

I prefer the Status shaft and Royal Sandmax grips. The grips don't cost an arm and a
leg and serve me very well. I have them on all my clubs and I'm building a set now
that I am going to use the Sandmax on.

Hope you will hit 'em straight most of the time.

Tom T

------------------------------

End of shoptalk-digest V1 #18
*****************************