shoptalk-digest Sunday, 10 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 024


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From: "Scott" <golfscot@netcom.industry.net>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:32:02 -0500
Subject: ShopTalk: Golf Bags

Customers are starting to ask for golf bags. Any good suggetions for
suppliers ?
Scott Fishel

------------------------------

From: jhm@clubmaker-online.com
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:49:04 +0100
Subject: ShopTalk: Peerless Iron Heads

Scott:

Clubmaker Online is now an authorized reseller the Peerless PHD iron
heads (sets only) at my catalog at Clubmaker Online. Go to
http://clubmaker-online.com/NationalGolf.html They have licensed the
Patented Hosel Design PHD) to King Cobra. The only <bold>legal
</bold>heads to use this wedge design are King Cobra, Palmer and
Peerless. The Arnold Palmer Golf Company bought National Golf and they
are in the process of repositioning the Palmer and Peerless brands. I
made a set for myself and they are very nice heads. I've seen the clubs
in steel at a golf shop for about $450 and in graphite for about $650.

Email me or call my order line at 800-787-7110 if you are interested in
ordering these. I'll have a secure order form up in a week or so for
online ordering.

John Muir

Clubmaker Online




>Where can you buy / order the PHD heads ? National Components,
supplier of

>Palmer heads did not have them in their catalog.

>Scott Fishel

>

>----------

>> From: John Davis <<john@hevanet.com>

>> To: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com

>> Subject: ShopTalk: Fenwick, Grafalloy, and True Temper

>> Date: Sunday, November 03, 1996 8:04 AM

>>

>> Right now I am deciding what shafts to put on a new set of those
newly

>> component released Palmer PHD iron heads. I am very interested in
the

>> Sensicore and Rocket models by True Temper, has anyone tried them.
Also,

>if

>> you know what kind of Apollo shafts are used on the comecial version
it

>> would be helpful. Now a different subject. I am thinking of
building a

>> driver using the Dynacraft 245cc aluminum alloy model 545 head and
either

>a

>> Fenwick "The Best" shaft, or a Grafalloy ProLite shaft on it, has
anyone

>> tried any of those components? Thanks a ton in advance!

>> -----------------------------

>> John Davis

>> john@hevanet.com

>>

>> "You will find all you need in

>> your mind, if you take the time."

>> -Dream Theater

>> ------------------------------

>>






^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The name golf arose by default-all the other four-letter words had
already been taken-George Peper, writer
http://clubmaker-online.com

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


------------------------------

From: Chuck West <chuckw1@airmail.net>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 22:13:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Raven Stealth II Driver with Ultralite Shaft

(I also have a customer that is very happy with the Golfsmith Carbonstick
>Ultralite shaft. Anybody have any comments on this shaft?)
>
>I'm trying to come up with a reasonably priced combination that will
>resemble the performance of the Golfsmith Ti260 with the Pro-Lite shaft.
I'd >like to assemble one for myself, but I'm a lefty and the Ti260 isn't
available >in left-handed. (I'm also not convinced that the Titanium is
really necessary,
>considering the price!) As a result, I think the Raven Stealth II head with
>a decent ultralite shaft may be a very good performer.

I also was looking for a combination that would be similar to the TI260 from
Golfsmith. What I made was a Hugh Mungus from Mercury Golf (260 cc - 202 gm
- - $25 plus shipping) with a Golfsmith Carbonstick Ultralight shaft and a
Golf Pride Velvet Lite grip. I cut it to 45 inches, total weight about 225,
swing weight D3. I love the feel of this one and have a feeling that I will
sell a few of these.


------------------------------

From: cgdick <cgdick@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 05:06:12 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Blowing Grips

On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Beverley or Jorgen Ormstrup wrote:

> > I've been blowing grips with an air compressor for a few years. Big, high
> > pressure compreesors had a lot of explosions, ruining the grip.
>
> I have tied a few of times to use compressed air to do the job, but I
> must be missing part of the equasion... A couple came off very nicely,
> but another blew up with not even a hint that it was close to working
> properly (it was a putter grip).

There is a trick to it. There must be a tube over it to hold the
blowouts. Put the air to it, grab the grip end and twist it eack side in
turn. This permits the air to expand that part, free that part of the
grip from the shaft and start the process down the shaft a bit. The
hotshot volume shop pro who showed me how used a big pressure compressor,
waited for the POP when the air escaped from the lower end of the grip,
then, holding the butt end firmly, gave a fast hard pull, and it came off
fast.

My success has been more work, Twisting the butt, then a little further
down. When I feel air escaping from the bottom, I twist there, pull it
toward me, pull on the butt end and it slips off slowly. Some quicker
than others. I have found the 2" grip tape the hardest to do. I'll go
back to the 3/4' when the current roll is done. (I put the 3/4 tape on to
cover 50-33% of the shaft, which holds it firmly for the golfer, yet lets
the air get down the shaft when blowing grips.

Good clubmakers will doubtless wonder why I blow so many. I wonder too,
but there always seems to be a good reason at the time.

My Clubmaking course starts 25 Nov. I can hardly wait!

Colin.


------------------------------

From: WSteve2@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:57:38 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Peerless Iron Heads

If you can only buy them in complete sets how do you make demo clubs?

------------------------------

From: GC Roush II <groush@icgroup.net>
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 10:20:44 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Peerless Iron Heads

WSteve2@aol.com wrote:
>
> If you can only buy them in complete sets how do you make demo clubs?Steve,
You might want to try GolfSmith's Demo Program.
The cost is very reasonable and includes almost their entire line
George

------------------------------

From: WSteve2@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:46:57 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Peerless Iron Heads

I have a couple dozen demos of the Golfsmith line. I was referring to the
Peerless heads that they are only selling in sets.

------------------------------

From: "Scott" <golfscot@netcom.industry.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:17:45 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Peerless Iron Heads

George,
We are talking about the Peerless heads offered by club maker-online not
GOLFSMITH

- ----------
> From: GC Roush II <groush@icgroup.net>
> To: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com
> Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Peerless Iron Heads
> Date: Wednesday, November 06, 1996 10:20 AM
>
> WSteve2@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > If you can only buy them in complete sets how do you make demo
clubs?Steve,
> You might want to try GolfSmith's Demo Program.
> The cost is very reasonable and includes almost their entire line
> George

------------------------------

From: "Scott" <golfscot@netcom.industry.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:14:49 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Peerless Iron Heads

Good question. I would even settle for a 2 iron demo.
Scott Fishel

- ----------
> From: WSteve2@aol.com
> To: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com
> Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Peerless Iron Heads
> Date: Wednesday, November 06, 1996 9:57 AM
>
> If you can only buy them in complete sets how do you make demo clubs?

------------------------------

From: mpace@juno.com (Morgan W Pace)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:55:51 PST
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Raven Stealth II Driver with Ultralite Shaft

Chuck-- I have been trying to come up with something similar to what you
are working on. My model was a Ti Taylor Made but I think the objective
is the same, i.e. a 44+" driver with a head of about 250cc and a total
weight under 12 oz.

The first one I tried was Golfsmith "Grand Titanium" and I put it on a
Grafalloy Attack Lite shaft with a 36 gram grip. Cut to 44.5' it only
weighed about 10.5 oz and had a swing weight of D 7. It was so light that it took a while to get used to it but after a few tries I got
accustomed to the feel. The only problem with it was that the ball
trajectory was too high. So I checked the loft on the clubhead
(something I should have done before I assembled it) and according to my
measurements it was 13 degrees. It went the way of my other failed
experiments, on consignment in a used club shop.

I am back at it now with a head from CSG; one of their Mercury Titan
250cc heads. According to my measurements it has 11 degrees of loft and
my scale shows it to be a little overweight at about 200 grams but I
think will serve my purpose. Now I am looking for a lightweight shaft
for this (bore thru/deep bore, short hosel) head. I liked the feel of
the Attack Light shaft in the regular flex but I see lightweight
graphite shafts advertised for as little as $19.50.

Anyone out there had experience with inexpensive lightweight graphite
shafts ?

On Tue, 5 Nov 96 22:13:25 -0600 (CST) Chuck West <chuckw1@airmail.net>
writes:
>(I also have a customer that is very happy with the Golfsmith
>Carbonstick
>>Ultralite shaft. Anybody have any comments on this shaft?)
>>
>>I'm trying to come up with a reasonably priced combination that will
>>resemble the performance of the Golfsmith Ti260 with the Pro-Lite
>shaft.
>I'd >like to assemble one for myself, but I'm a lefty and the Ti260
>isn't
>available >in left-handed. (I'm also not convinced that the Titanium
>is
>really necessary,
>>considering the price!) As a result, I think the Raven Stealth II
>head with
>>a decent ultralite shaft may be a very good performer.
>
>I also was looking for a combination that would be similar to the
>TI260 from
>Golfsmith. What I made was a Hugh Mungus from Mercury Golf (260 cc -
>202 gm
>- $25 plus shipping) with a Golfsmith Carbonstick Ultralight shaft and
>a
>Golf Pride Velvet Lite grip. I cut it to 45 inches, total weight about
>225,
>swing weight D3. I love the feel of this one and have a feeling that I
>will
>sell a few of these.
>
>

------------------------------

From: "The Cotton's" <cotton@sdcoe.k12.ca.us>
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 08:28:05 -0800
Subject: ShopTalk: Club length versus lie

I am five foot seven and have a fingertip to floor measurement of 26 inches. I bought
the XPC plus irons and woods from clubmaker online. I am very happy with them, but
cannot hit them at the length (one-half inch long) suggested by Golfsmith. David T's
notes recommend that a 26 inch measurement can result in shafts that are as much as an
inch shorter than standard.

Can anyone give me some suggestions regarding lie vs. length changes. And if I am to
shorten the length, should I add weight to the already slightly lighter heads. I am
only talking irons here. The standard length woods seem to be fine.

Thanks,

R. Cotton
San Diego

------------------------------

From: Frank Gardner <gardner@emc.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:41:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: ShopTalk: Wood Shafts

Can anyone point me to a vendor that supplies wood shafts?

I want to make a Wood Shaft Putter.

Thanks for any help you may have.

FrankG

------------------------------

From: "Mike Burke" <mburke@goldrush.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:24:51 -0800
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Wood Shafts

Golfsmith and Golfworks both have wood putter shafts

- ----------
> From: Frank Gardner <gardner@emc.com>
> To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com
> Subject: ShopTalk: Wood Shafts
> Date: Thursday, November 07, 1996 9:41 AM
>
>
> Can anyone point me to a vendor that supplies wood shafts?
>
> I want to make a Wood Shaft Putter.
>
> Thanks for any help you may have.
>
> FrankG

------------------------------

From: "R. Cotton" <cotton@sdcoe.k12.ca.us>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:56:29 -0800
Subject: ShopTalk: Club Length

I am five foot seven and have a fingertip to floor measurement of 26 inches.
I bought the XPC plus irons and woods from Clubmaker Online. I am very
happy with them, but cannot hit them at the length (one-half inch long)
suggested by Golfsmith. David T's notes recommend that a 26 inch
measurement can result in shafts that are as much as an inch shorter than
standard.

Can anyone give me some suggestions regarding lie vs. length changes? Is it
better to adjust the lie before length? I am concerned about swingweight
with the already lighter than average XPC heads. I am only talking about
the irons here. The standard length woods seem to be fine.

Thanks,

R. Cotton
San Diego


------------------------------

From: "Scott" <golfscot@netcom.industry.net>
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:32:21 -0500
Subject: ShopTalk: Penicks

Just received first order from club maker online. Those of you, Don
Flatgard too, recommending the Penicks, thanks. Great looking pro head.
Will be hitting them Sunday.
Scott Fishel

------------------------------

From: "Scott" <golfscot@netcom.industry.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 04:49:20 -0500
Subject: ShopTalk: Titanium vs Graphite Shafts

What is being preffered by those who tried titanium and graphite shafts.
Having a problem with consistancy with titanium but great shafts using
Aldila low torque 4.0 on same heads. Cant sell titanium shafts either.
Don Flatgard, you out their.
Scott Fishel

------------------------------

From: "Scott" <golfscot@netcom.industry.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 05:00:39 -0500
Subject: ShopTalk: Palmer caps

Looking to by a Arnold Palmer baseball cap.
Any sugestions ?
Scott Fishel

------------------------------

From: TStineman@aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:08:18 -0500
Subject: ShopTalk: Fitting Children for Clubs

I am in the process of fitting a 9 year old for a set of clubs.

Loft, Lie, Length, Grips are no problem.

Any sense of what the swingweight should be for a child?

TLS Golf

------------------------------

From: LBMcKinney@aol.com
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 05:02:48 -0500
Subject: ShopTalk: Dat files

On several occasions, I receive mail from the Shoptalk mailing list with a
.Dat file attached.

How do I access and view these file types?

Larry McKinney

------------------------------

From: "John G. Bowman" <clubfitter@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 09:31:33 +0000
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Blowing Grips

On 5 Nov 96 at 14:37, Beverley or Jorgen Ormstrup wrote:

> cgdick wrote:
> >
> > I've been blowing grips with an air compressor for a few years. Big, high
> > pressure compreesors had a lot of explosions, ruining the grip.
> >etc.
>
>
> Hi:
>
> I am fairly new to clubmking, so please excuse what I don't know.
>
> I have tied a few of times to use compressed air to do the job, but I
> must be missing part of the equasion... A couple came off very nicely,
> but another blew up with not even a hint that it was close to working
> properly (it was a putter grip).
>
> My question is: are we supposed to put solvent into the grip before we
> put in air? I have used a tube arround the grip, and it does help
> reduce explosions, but I need at least one more hand to hold everything
> in place...
>
> I have had fairly good luck with the needle and solvent trick, but I
> hate it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jorgen Ormstrup
>
> digit@sk.sympatico.ca
>

I'm not a professional clubmaker, but here's what I do. I first put the club in
a vise vertically, with just enough of the shaft above the vise so the plastic tube
(I use a section from a vacum cleaner hose) will rest on the vise and leave about
1-2 inches of the shaft end exposed at the top. I use an air needlelike you would
use for inflating basketballs, footballs, etc. Insert the needle through the butt hole
of the grip working it between the grip and the shaft, down about 1/2 inch (this is
not always easy or fun). Pour some (very little) solvent (with a funnel) down the
needle, working the needle back and forth a little. Do this equally on four
sides just to get started. I then use a rubber tipped, coned air fitting and use short
bursts of air, working the grip back and forth. Once the first inch or so has worked
loose, I raise the shaft and hold the tube with the same hand that I work the grip with.
Little by little it will work loose.

If you are patient with this, it will work fine. I haven't had one blow out
yet. IMHO, this is not one of the money-making aspects of clubmaking.
However, if it is something that the customer wants, and you can do it with
success, it will raise the confidence level of your customers in you, thus
generating more business. Hopefully with aspects other than just blowing off
grips.

I hope this helps.

John G. Bowman
clubfitter@mindspring.com

------------------------------

From: John Payne <jcpayne@randomc.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 09:26:44 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Fenwick, Grafalloy, and True Temper

John,

I do have comments on two of the shafts you mentioned. First, the Stratus
Sensicore. I was going to build a set using them but after testing them on a
frequency meter I decided not to. They were really miss matched. I
investigated a little further and found that about half of them were not
round. They were probably damaged during shipping at some point. Anyway, I
returned them. The Rocket seems to be a good shaft, I have several customers
using them and they like them. One note though, they are really stiff. The
"R" is really a "S" and the "S" plays like and "X". At least when tested on
a frequency meter.

Just my $.02,
John

At 09:04 PM 11/3/96 +0800, you wrote:
>Right now I am deciding what shafts to put on a new set of those newly
>component released Palmer PHD iron heads. I am very interested in the
>Sensicore and Rocket models by True Temper, has anyone tried them. Also, if
>you know what kind of Apollo shafts are used on the comecial version it
>would be helpful. Now a different subject. I am thinking of building a
>driver using the Dynacraft 245cc aluminum alloy model 545 head and either a
>Fenwick "The Best" shaft, or a Grafalloy ProLite shaft on it, has anyone
>tried any of those components? Thanks a ton in advance!
>-----------------------------
>John Davis
>john@hevanet.com
>
>"You will find all you need in
>your mind, if you take the time."
> -Dream Theater
>------------------------------
>
>
>


------------------------------

From: John Payne <jcpayne@randomc.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 09:42:04 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Shaft quality control

Bill,

You are right, most if not all shafts have some flaws or defects in them. No
matter what the brand or how much they cost, you will find inconsistencies
in shafts. I test all the shafts I use on a frequency meter and with a spine
finder and you'd be surprised how much some of them differ, even with the
higher costing shafts (Dynamic Gold, etc.). Graphite shafts tend to much
more inconsistent, regardless of how they are constructed. In the worst
cases I've seen 30 CPM differences in shafts from the same manufacturer,
that's 3 flexes.


So, as far as how much is acceptable? I really don't know. One thing I do
know that people will notice when a set of clubs is correctly matched. Hope
this answers some questions.

John



>
>After tipping several graphite shafts (Leyland 2.8) from CSG, I
>noticed that on some the wall thickness of the shaft at the tip end
>was slightly uneven. In other words, the hole wasn't centered in
>the exact center of the shaft, resulting in a variation in the wall
>thickness of up to 1/64".
>
>I presume most shafts are slightly nonconcentric. But how much is
>acceptable? At what point does it affect playability? Any thoughts
>on this?
>
>Bill
>
>
>
>


------------------------------

From: mpace@juno.com (Morgan W Pace)
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 10:08:04 PST
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Fenwick, Grafalloy, and True Temper

John -- I didn't have much luck with the Rocket shaft -- The "R" flex
felt too stiff for my 85 mph swing speed. The RSSR in Golfsmith catalog
is 90-105 for the Rocket in the "R" flex; it's probably a good shaft for
stronger hitters.
On Sun, 10 Nov 1996 09:26:44 -0500 John Payne <jcpayne@randomc.com>
writes:
>John,
>
>I do have comments on two of the shafts you mentioned. First, the
>Stratus
>Sensicore. I was going to build a set using them but after testing
>them on a
>frequency meter I decided not to. They were really miss matched. I
>investigated a little further and found that about half of them were
>not
>round. They were probably damaged during shipping at some point.
>Anyway, I
>returned them. The Rocket seems to be a good shaft, I have several
>customers
>using them and they like them. One note though, they are really stiff.
>The
>"R" is really a "S" and the "S" plays like and "X". At least when
>tested on
>a frequency meter.
>
>Just my $.02,
>John
>
>At 09:04 PM 11/3/96 +0800, you wrote:
>>Right now I am deciding what shafts to put on a new set of those
>newly
>>component released Palmer PHD iron heads. I am very interested in
>the
>>Sensicore and Rocket models by True Temper, has anyone tried them.
>Also, if
>>you know what kind of Apollo shafts are used on the comecial version
>it
>>would be helpful. Now a different subject. I am thinking of
>building a
>>driver using the Dynacraft 245cc aluminum alloy model 545 head and
>either a
>>Fenwick "The Best" shaft, or a Grafalloy ProLite shaft on it, has
>anyone
>>tried any of those components? Thanks a ton in advance!
>>-----------------------------
>>John Davis
>>john@hevanet.com
>>
>>"You will find all you need in
>>your mind, if you take the time."
>> -Dream Theater
>>------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>
>

------------------------------

End of shoptalk-digest V1 #24
*****************************