shoptalk-digest Sunday, 15 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number
010
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: djmiller@wolf.co.net (Daniel J. Miller)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 22:02:47 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Frequency Matching -- kind of...
Jonathon Wrote:
>Any recommendations on how to construct an almost-frequency matched
set of
>irons using a lightweight steel shaft (Brunswick Microtaper) and NO
frequency
>analyzer? I know its a shot in the dark but I would really like to achieve
a
>tigher slope than is achieved using the 1/2 inch tip trim rule. Too
>cookie-cutter for me.
>
>Questions:
>Should I tip trim the shafts the same amount through the set or use
a per club
>trim difference of 1/4" (or 3/8") (vs the 1/2" suggested
by Brunswick) to more
>closely match the flex of each iron. What might this do to the long
irons?
>Will my short irons be TOO flexible? What should I use as a starting
point --
>its a combination flex shaft (R/S) -- the 5 iron, the 7 iron, etc? Id
like it
>to be regular flex. Has anyone tried this and if so, were the results
>satisfactory?
>
>Thanks in advance and pardon the barrage of questions in a single posting.
>
>
Jonathon,
Sorry I don't have a lot of answers for you. (My guess is that frequency
matching without a meter is near-impossible!)
Regarding tip trimming - If you can, read the article titled "To Tip
or Not
To Tip" in the Golfsmith Clubmaker Technical Report dated June 1996.
It
addresses some of your tip trimming questions (and then some!).
Dan
djm
------------------------------
From: Mark Vernacotola <vern@kodak.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 08:37:41 -0500
Subject: ShopTalk: Odyssey Putter
I am new to clubmaking and would like to start by building a putter.
I have used the Odyssey Rossie II Mallet with much pleasure. I am
not interested in cloning the look but would like to capture the
feel of the club. I would appreciate component (shaft, head and
grip) recommendations from any major component vendors.
I especially like the ease with which the Rossie II allowed me to line
up my putts.
Any comments would be appreciated. I apologize if my post is too
simplistic. I am in search of a good starting point.
Please respond to my email address as well as the group if applica.
Thanks in advance
Mark Vernacotola
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark J. Vernacotola Internet: vern@alnitak.Kodak.COM
Development Engineer Phone: (716) 722-1232
Eastman Kodak Company Fax: (716) 477-8681
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Glaser Jonathan" <Glaser_Jonathan@bah.com>
Date: 9 Sep 1996 15:13:04 U
Subject: ShopTalk: OEM Shaft data
Anyone know where I can get numbers (flex, frequency, torque, weight, bend
point, etc.) for OEM shafts -- like Aldila's Crankshaft for Nickalus (steel
and graphite). If anyone has any data out there -- can you forward it to
me
here? Thanks.
J Glaser
glaser_jonathan@bah.com
------------------------------
From: eer1@osi.com (Ed Reeder x2716)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 12:32:22 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: Bulge and Roll
Any advice about fitting for Bulge and Roll, other than just trying
different ones?
Is there a generally agreed upon "average" for them?
I've seen them well-explained in the DynaCraft club fitting book, but
never seen how to fit for them.
It would also seem that the shaft flex plays a part in the equation
as well.
/Ed Reeder
------------------------------
From: John Payne <jcpayne@randomc.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 21:31:40 -0400
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Taylor Made Titanium Driver
I don't know what kind of swing speed you have but for Ultra light shafts
I
like the Loomis Ultra light sold by Golfsmith and I also like their 230
TI
head. I've used both for several customers and all of them have been very
happy. Hope this helps some.
John
------------------------------
From: drg3@juno.com (Donald R Gasler)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 07:41:17 PST
Subject: [none]
A question to all...
Can you cut down a regular set of clubs to fit a child?
If so, are there any special considerations?
Don.
------------------------------
From: "Glaser Jonathan" <Glaser_Jonathan@bah.com>
Date: 13 Sep 1996 14:50:40 U
Subject: ShopTalk: Clubhead weights
Does anyone know of a components manufacturer who makes clubheads heavier
than
'standard'? I know Golfsmith makes light ones and Dynacraft's are in the
'standard' range, but I need to make a set of clubs 1/2 inch short for a
powerful (read: no light swingweights) golfer.
I know I can weight the hosel down with tip weights, but his request was
to do
as little tinkering as possible. Therefore, I am looking for heavy (but
not
graphite weighted) clubheads. Thanks.
------------------------------
From: carpentg@ix.netcom.com (Gerald Carpenter)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:31:11 -0700
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Clubhead weights
Most manufacturers will have "graphite weighted" heads...
...check out DYNACRAFT and look for that term. Also, may want to
call their technical assistance and inquire.
Jerry Carpenter
You wrote:
>
>Does anyone know of a components manufacturer who makes clubheads
heavier than
>'standard'? I know Golfsmith makes light ones and Dynacraft's are in
the
>'standard' range, but I need to make a set of clubs 1/2 inch short for
a
>powerful (read: no light swingweights) golfer.
>
>I know I can weight the hosel down with tip weights, but his request
was to do
>as little tinkering as possible. Therefore, I am looking for heavy
(but not
>graphite weighted) clubheads. Thanks.
>
------------------------------
From: cgdick <cgdick@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 06:19:10 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Bulge and Roll
On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, Ed Reeder x2716 wrote:
> Any advice about fitting for Bulge and Roll, other than just trying
> different ones?
>
> Is there a generally agreed upon "average" for them?
I can't answer about the bulge, but my mis-hits are not as bad as they
might be.
I've had a gripe about the roll for a long time, but haven't been able to
do anything about it until now. I posted all the Golfsmith specs to a
spreadsheet and noted the old models were standard at 10" roll. The
newer
models go way up from there, many 12", more 14", FOUR 16",
and one 18"!
Kinda blown my mind, and I've dithered for 10 days now on what to order.
One note of interest. Many will refer to the measure in degrees, but roll
and bulge are nothing more than the arc described by an arc with a radius
of the stated inches.
My gripe was that the loft was only 11 degrees at the center of the club.
Hit the ball 1/2" high, and you get the result of a 12.5 or 13 degree
loft. More serious was the low on the face hit, the 'worm-burner'.
> I've seen them well-explained in the DynaCraft club fitting book, but
> never seen how to fit for them.
>
> It would also seem that the shaft flex plays a part in the equation
> as well.
Can't comment on those 'cuz I don't know what they say!
Colin Dick, Calgary, AB
------------------------------
From: cgdick <cgdick@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 06:25:57 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Clubhead weights
On 13 Sep 1996, Glaser Jonathan wrote:
> Does anyone know of a components manufacturer who makes clubheads heavier
than
> 'standard'? I know Golfsmith makes light ones and Dynacraft's are in
the
> 'standard' range, but I need to make a set of clubs 1/2 inch short
for a
> powerful (read: no light swingweights) golfer.
Read the Golfsmith catalogue some more! You want one of their Graphite
weighted models, id logo on each that offer the option. See page 54 for
example.
> I know I can weight the hosel down with tip weights, but his request
was to do
> as little tinkering as possible. Therefore, I am looking for heavy
(but not
> graphite weighted) clubheads. Thanks.
The explanation on G weighted sez they are for standard SW on shorter
clubs too. Check also on LIE specs, quite a few at 54 vs standard 55
degrees.
Colin Dick, Calgary, AB
------------------------------
From: "Scott" <golfscot@netcom.industry.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:53:04 -0400
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Clubhead weights
Glaser:
I found all 431 Stainless heads weigh 220grams with the exception of Taylor
Made Burner irons. These weigh in at 240 grams. The knock-offs also weigh
in the same.
What is your opinion on hitting heavier irons ?
Scott Fishel
- ----------
> From: cgdick <cgdick@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
> To: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com
> Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Clubhead weights
> Date: Saturday, September 14, 1996 8:25 AM
>
>
>
> On 13 Sep 1996, Glaser Jonathan wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know of a components manufacturer who makes clubheads
heavier than
> > 'standard'? I know Golfsmith makes light ones and Dynacraft's
are in
the
> > 'standard' range, but I need to make a set of clubs 1/2 inch short
for
a
> > powerful (read: no light swingweights) golfer.
>
> Read the Golfsmith catalogue some more! You want one of their Graphite
> weighted models, id logo on each that offer the option. See page 54
for
> example.
>
> > I know I can weight the hosel down with tip weights, but his request
was to do
> > as little tinkering as possible. Therefore, I am looking for
heavy
(but not
> > graphite weighted) clubheads. Thanks.
>
> The explanation on G weighted sez they are for standard SW on shorter
> clubs too. Check also on LIE specs, quite a few at 54 vs standard
55
> degrees.
>
> Colin Dick, Calgary, AB
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Scott" <golfscot@netcom.industry.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:57:36 -0400
Subject: ShopTalk: Club Head Choice
I have been making clubs for about 6 months now and made several types for
myself then selling them as used. This reason is beacuse I cant make up
my
mind what I like better. Basically 858s', Snakes and Burners I have used.
I
hit the 858s' straight. I hit the Burners longer on mis-hits, and hit the
Snakes straight in mis-hits.
Any comment or preferences and why ?
Thanks ,
Scott Fishel
------------------------------
- ---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------I
have been making clubs for about 6 months now and made several types for
myself then selling them as used. This reason is beacuse I cant make up
my
mind what I like better. Basically 858s', Snakes and Burners I have used.
I
hit the 858s' straight. I hit the Burners longer on mis-hits, and hit the
Snakes straight in mis-hits.
Any comment or preferences and why ?
Thanks ,
Scott Fishel
------------------------------
- ---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------Glaser:
I found all 431 Stainless heads weigh 220grams with the exception of Taylor
Made Burner irons. These weigh in at 240 grams. The knock-offs also weigh
in the same.
What is your opinion on hitting heavier irons ?
Scott Fishel
- ----------
> From: cgdick <cgdick@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
> To: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com
> Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Clubhead weights
> Date: Saturday, September 14, 1996 8:25 AM
>
>
>
> On 13 Sep 1996, Glaser Jonathan wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know of a components manufacturer who makes clubheads
heavier than
> > 'standard'? I know Golfsmith makes light ones and Dynacraft's
are in
the
> > 'standard' range, but I need to make a set of clubs 1/2 inch short
for
a
> > powerful (read: no light swingweights) golfer.
>
> Read the Golfsmith catalogue some more! You want one of their Graphite
> weighted models, id logo on each that offer the option. See page 54
for
> example.
>
> > I know I can weight the hosel down with tip weights, but his request
was to do
> > as little tinkering as possible. Therefore, I am looking for
heavy
(but not
> > graphite weighted) clubheads. Thanks.
>
> The explanation on G weighted sez they are for standard SW on shorter
> clubs too. Check also on LIE specs, quite a few at 54 vs standard
55
> degrees.
>
> Colin Dick, Calgary, AB
>
>
------------------------------
- ---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------
On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, Ed Reeder x2716 wrote:
> Any advice about fitting for Bulge and Roll, other than just trying
> different ones?
>
> Is there a generally agreed upon "average" for them?
I can't answer about the bulge, but my mis-hits are not as bad as they
might be.
I've had a gripe about the roll for a long time, but haven't been able to
do anything about it until now. I posted all the Golfsmith specs to a
spreadsheet and noted the old models were standard at 10" roll. The
newer
models go way up from there, many 12", more 14", FOUR 16",
and one 18"!
Kinda blown my mind, and I've dithered for 10 days now on what to order.
One note of interest. Many will refer to the measure in degrees, but roll
and bulge are nothing more than the arc described by an arc with a radius
of the stated inches.
My gripe was that the loft was only 11 degrees at the center of the club.
Hit the ball 1/2" high, and you get the result of a 12.5 or 13 degree
loft. More serious was the low on the face hit, the 'worm-burner'.
> I've seen them well-explained in the DynaCraft club fitting book, but
> never seen how to fit for them.
>
> It would also seem that the shaft flex plays a part in the equation
> as well.
Can't comment on those 'cuz I don't know what they say!
Colin Dick, Calgary, AB
------------------------------
- ---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------
On 13 Sep 1996, Glaser Jonathan wrote:
> Does anyone know of a components manufacturer who makes clubheads heavier
than
> 'standard'? I know Golfsmith makes light ones and Dynacraft's are in
the
> 'standard' range, but I need to make a set of clubs 1/2 inch short
for a
> powerful (read: no light swingweights) golfer.
Read the Golfsmith catalogue some more! You want one of their Graphite
weighted models, id logo on each that offer the option. See page 54 for
example.
> I know I can weight the hosel down with tip weights, but his request
was to do
> as little tinkering as possible. Therefore, I am looking for heavy
(but not
> graphite weighted) clubheads. Thanks.
The explanation on G weighted sez they are for standard SW on shorter
clubs too. Check also on LIE specs, quite a few at 54 vs standard 55
degrees.
Colin Dick, Calgary, AB
------------------------------
- ---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------Most
manufacturers will have "graphite weighted" heads...
...check out DYNACRAFT and look for that term. Also, may want to
call their technical assistance and inquire.
Jerry Carpenter
You wrote:
>
>Does anyone know of a components manufacturer who makes clubheads
heavier than
>'standard'? I know Golfsmith makes light ones and Dynacraft's are in
the
>'standard' range, but I need to make a set of clubs 1/2 inch short for
a
>powerful (read: no light swingweights) golfer.
>
>I know I can weight the hosel down with tip weights, but his request
was to do
>as little tinkering as possible. Therefore, I am looking for heavy
(but not
>graphite weighted) clubheads. Thanks.
>
------------------------------
From: "Scott" <golfscot@netcom.industry.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:35:37 -0400
Subject: ShopTalk: Re_Shaft
I am attempting my first re-shafting project. Are their any instructions
on
e-mail or web pages for club head removal.
Thanks
Scott Fishel
------------------------------
From: robert.see@toltbbs.com
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 20:11:47 -0400
Subject: ShopTalk: Frequency matching
Has anyone seen a chart that relates 5I and/or Driver club head speed to
recommended frequency for those clubs?
And what is the best way to correct for variation in hosel bore depth?
I
suppose I could bore the shallow ones deeper, but if the head is already
on the
light side of its tolerance, I wouldn't want to push it. (plus it doesn't
sound
like much fun) Is leaving the tip longer on the deeper hosels acceptable?
Off the top of my head I can't see why shaft in the hosel would change the
frequency of the club.
Robert
------------------------------
From: jhm@clubmaker-online.com
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 20:47:54 +0100
Subject: ShopTalk: Prof.Clubmakers Society Trade Show
I'll be attending the PCS Trade Show in Louisville Sept. 26-30. If you are
unable to attend, watch for my Trade Show Review at
http://clubmaker-online.com.
Please pass the word along to anyone on the web that you think this might
be a benefit to. Also let me know if you have any suggestions on improving
Clubmaker Online. (don't send suggestions to the list, please send them
to:jhm@clubmaker-online.com).
Thanks,
John Muir
Clubmaker Online
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The name golf arose by default-all the other four-letter words had already
been taken-George Peper, writer http://clubmaker-online.com
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
------------------------------
From: John Payne <jcpayne@randomc.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 20:59:52 -0400
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Frequency matching
At 08:11 PM 9/15/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Has anyone seen a chart that relates 5I and/or Driver club head speed
to
>recommended frequency for those clubs?
>
>And what is the best way to correct for variation in hosel bore depth?
I
>suppose I could bore the shallow ones deeper, but if the head is already
on the
>light side of its tolerance, I wouldn't want to push it. (plus it doesn't
sound
>like much fun) Is leaving the tip longer on the deeper hosels acceptable?
>Off the top of my head I can't see why shaft in the hosel would change
the
>frequency of the club.
>
>Robert
Robert,
While I have seen several charts or systems that relate a frequency to a
swing speed, none take into account the differences in swings. (ie fast
tempo, rapid acceleration, smooth, etc). The only way I know of finding
the
correct frequency for someone is having the person hit several of the same
clubs with different't frequency shafts.
As far as drilling the heads, hozel depth will affect frequency. When it
comes down to it, the only way to really frequency match is with a frequency
meter. I think, and this is just my untested opinion, that you would get
a
better frequency match by drilling the hozels to equal depth and then adding
weight down the shaft to get the necessary head weight. I have no proof
of
this thought. It's just my opinion from working with clubs. (let the flames
begin).
Hope this helps,
John
------------------------------
End of shoptalk-digest V1 #10
*****************************