shoptalk-digest Friday, 2 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number 003


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From: smart golf <smartgolf@c9.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 22:14:23 -0400
Subject: ShopTalk: (no subject)

how does one get around the person who insists on getting a look-a-like clone and won't
except anything else but a exact copy of the original?

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From: smart golf <smartgolf@c9.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 22:15:48 -0400
Subject: ShopTalk: clones

how does one get around the person who won't except a clone unless it's a exact
look-a-like of a original?

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From: elevine@lightlink.com (Ed)
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 23:23:17 -0400
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Test message for the digest.

This test is working dennis !!!!!!!!!!!!!!>dennisi9 wrote:
>>
>> THIS IS A TEST MESSAGE.SHOULD YOU RECIEVE IT KINDLY LET ME KNOW.I HAVE
>> BEEN HAVING PROBLEMS WITH MY E-MAIL
>> THANX,
>> DENNISIt Works!
>
>
@>---------------->----------------@>---------------->------------------@>-----
"My angel, my all, my very self...my thoughts go out to you, my Immortal
Beloved, now and then joyfully, then sadly, waiting to learn whether or not
fate will hear us - I can live only wholly with you or not at all... Be calm-
love me - today - yesterday - what tearful longings for you - you - you - my
life- my all- farewell. Oh continue to love - never misjudge the most faithful
heart of your beloved. Ever thine Ever mine Ever ours... L"
-Ludwig van Beethoven
@>---------------->----------------@>---------------->------------------@>-----

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From: George Albertson <george@olywa.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 23:13:42 -0700
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: (no subject)

At 10:14 PM 7/26/96 -0400, you wrote:
>how does one get around the person who insists on getting a look-a-like
clone and won't
>except anything else but a exact copy of the original?
>
Thank them for considering your services but suggest they look elsewhere.

------------------------------

From: djmiller@wolf.co.net (Daniel J. Miller)
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 19:52:01 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: (no subject)

>At 10:14 PM 7/26/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>how does one get around the person who insists on getting a look-a-like
>clone and won't
>>except anything else but a exact copy of the original?
>>
>Thank them for considering your services but suggest they look elsewhere.
>
>
Here we are opening this old "can of worms" again...

I agree! I would turn them away also...
djm


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From: TRGuenther@aol.com
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 21:57:24 -0400
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Test message for the digest.

In a message dated 96-07-26 23:27:09 EDT, you write:

<< This test is working dennis !!!!!!!!!!!!!!>dennisi9 wrote:
>>
>> THIS IS A TEST MESSAGE.SHOULD YOU RECIEVE IT KINDLY LET ME KNOW.I HAVE
>> BEEN HAVING PROBLEMS WITH MY E-MAIL
>> THANX,
>> DENNISIt Works!
>
> >>
We are replying and replying and replying to this message. Now we are
replying to the replies....

STOP THE MADNESS!!!

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From: raroys00@service1.uky.edu (Richard Royster)
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 14:29:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ShopTalk: Golfworks Kinetic Irons Question

I have an older set of these irons and was wondering if it is
possible/practical to remove the caps on the weight ports? They look to be
sealed up (epoxy?).

Richard Royster raroys00@pop.uky.edu Lexington, Ky.
"Everyone ought to bear patiently the results of his own conduct." -Phaedrus
(fl. 25 AD)
"Except for when you miss that 3 footer for par. Then give the putter a good
heave." -Royster (1965-)


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From: higday@pacific.net (Ron Higday)
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 17:56:06 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: Thanks

A while back as a beginner I asked for advice on putting together a set of
graphite shafted iron. After much discussion and advice from several of you,
I concluded that light weight steel might be a better choice for both
performance and cost. I ended up putting together a set using True Temper
Release shafts with Tour Model II heads. After 2 months of play I am really
thrilled with the results. Thanks to all of you who pointed me in that
direction.

Ron


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From: higday@pacific.net (Ron Higday)
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 17:56:09 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: King Cobra copycats

Knowing that I have had some success making my own clubs, my brother-in-law
has come to me for advice about buying a set of irons described by the
seller as follows: "King Cobra copycats, oversize heads, graphite
bubble-shaft, made by professional club maker, 3 through PW." He is asking
$375. Brother-in-law is asking me if that is a fair price. Anybody out there
have any comments?

Ron


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From: miko@uwo.ca (D. B. Miko)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 08:10:47 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Golfworks Kinetic Irons Question

>I have an older set of these irons and was wondering if it is
>possible/practical to remove the caps on the weight ports? They look to be
>sealed up (epoxy?).

Yes they are removable,
but they will likely be unusable after removal.

They are plastic and are epoxied in place,
covering the weight disks, (or powder), that has been
added to the weight ports.

Buy replacements BEFORE you attempt to remove them!




miko

"my opinions are my own, but I don't mind sharing ..."

db miko
UWO-Hardware Services
519-661-3027



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From: jhm@clubmaker-online.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:29:56 +0100
Subject: ShopTalk: Good News Regarding Shoptalk

Clubmaker Online is now offering a digest version of ShopTalk.
You'll receive all posted questions/answers in one convenient message
(probably once a week)instead of daily individual messages/responses. Each
issue will be archived for future reference.

To subscribe to the Digest send two messages:

First unsubscribe to Shoptalk (so you won't receive both versions)
To: Majordomo@mail.msen.com
From: (YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS)
LEAVE SUBJECT BLANK
in BODY OF MESSAGE only type: unsubscribe shoptalk

To Subscribe to the Digest:

To: Majordomo@mail.msen.com
From: (YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS)
LEAVE SUBJECT BLANK
in BODY OF MESSAGE only type: subscribe shoptalk-digest

Send questions/responses as before. (shoptalk@conch.aa.msen.com)

Go to http://shoptalk.subscribe.html if you need help or email me at
jhm@clubmaker-online.com

I'd also love to hear complaints/comments/suggestions on improving
Clubmaker Online.

John Muir
Clubmaker Online


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The name golf arose by default-all the other four-letter words had already
been taken-George Peper, writer http://clubmaker-online.com
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



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From: Parin Mekabut <pmekabut@uoknor.edu>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:39:33 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: blade?

Hi,

Well, I am just wondering if you have seen any cast blades that have
traditional look (similar to Golf Smith forged blade). I look at GS and
Golf Work but could not find cast with traditional look.

Thanks,
Parin.

------------------------------

From: "Kevin George" <kgeorge@mail.cei.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 21:58:26 +0000
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: blade?

Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:39:33 -0700
From: Parin Mekabut <pmekabut@uoknor.edu>
To: shoptalk@conch.aa.msen.com
Subject: ShopTalk: blade?
Reply-to: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com

Hi,

Well, I am just wondering if you have seen any cast blades that have
traditional look (similar to Golf Smith forged blade). I look at GS and
Golf Work but could not find cast with traditional look.

Thanks,
Parin.

Try UT Golf. I don't have their catalog anymore but I think they had
a head like that.
Kevin George
kgeorge@major.cei.net

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From: miko <miko@julian.uwo.ca>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 23:52:38 -0400
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: blade?

Parin Mekabut wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Well, I am just wondering if you have seen any cast blades that have
> traditional look (similar to Golf Smith forged blade).


Check out the Dynacraft Plus-Blade.
- --
| |

db miko
Mac Shack Golf
PCS-Class A Clubmaker
London, Ontario, CANADA

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From: Larry Dorough <ljdoro@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:31:08 -0500
Subject: ShopTalk: Frequency Matched Shafts

I have been told that the correct shaft for me measures 297 on a
frequency machine. How does this correspond to True Tempers R,S,X or
Brunswicks numbering system (3.5 - 8.0)? I was also told that each
shaft, 1 iron thru L wedge, should be exactly the same frequency. Is it
possible to order shafts this way? Wouldn't tip or butt trimming change
the frequency? Finally, does swing weight or total weight have any
effect on the frequency?

Thank you for your help!!!

ljdoro@earthlink.net

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From: Michael Pogor <crs0606@inforamp.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 08:58:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Frequency Matched Shafts

At 07:31 AM 7/30/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I have been told that the correct shaft for me measures 297 on a
>frequency machine. How does this correspond to True Tempers R,S,X or
>Brunswicks numbering system (3.5 - 8.0)? I was also told that each
>shaft, 1 iron thru L wedge, should be exactly the same frequency. Is it
>possible to order shafts this way? Wouldn't tip or butt trimming change
>the frequency? Finally, does swing weight or total weight have any
>effect on the frequency?
>
>Thank you for your help!!!
>
>ljdoro@earthlink.net
>
>
Theoretically, a reading of 297 corresponds to a Brunswick 6.7 shaft.
However, this is only theoretical, because different brands of frequency
analyzers can give slightly different readings, depending on how the club is
clamped, clamping pressure, etc. BTW, the number 297 relates to the
frequency of the irons, and woods are usually determined to be 30 cycles
less. Therefore, a reading of 297 for irons is 267 for woods. That's where
the 6.7 comes from.

It is possible to build a set of clubs with the same frequency, but you need
a frequency analyzer to do it. I build golf clubs all to the same
frequency, and I do this by ordering only 1 iron shafts (parallel tip), and
tip trimming each club individually, until I achieve the proper frequency.

Changing swingweight will affect frequency. Making a club head heavier will
lower the frequency of the shaft.

Another very important point to consider is that different shafts, because
of their design, will feel different even though they have the same
frequency. Let's assume that the number 297 came from using Dynamic or AP44
shafts. If you wanted to use a lightweight shaft such as a TT-Lite,
Spectre, or Shadow shaft, you would have to build the club at a 292
frequency, because lightweight shafts play about 5 cycles stiffer than
standard weight shafts. I LOVE the Brunswick Rifle shaft, but it also plays
stiffer than a standard shaft, and there is an adjustment factor, as well.
I found that a Rifle shaft plays about 7 to 8 cycles stiffer than a Dynamic
shaft.

As you can see, there is a lot involved when dealing with frequency matching!

Hope this helps.

Michael Pogor


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From: Mike Clayton <csmgc@eiu.edu>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:23:45 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: Titanium Big Bertha

Hi,

I am trying to find out what the new Ti Big Bertha head weighs.

Thanks, Mike

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From: mpace@juno.com (Morgan W Pace)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 06:38:32 PST
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Titanium Big Bertha

Mike -- According to the Golfsmith Clubmaker the total weight of a Great
Big Bertha driver is 10.75 oz. with a swing weight of D1 on a 44.75 "
firm shaft. --sorry no info on the club head weight.

------------------------------

From: Rick Sina <76145.36@compuserve.com>
Date: 01 Aug 96 10:08:51 EDT
Subject: ShopTalk: Great Big Bertha headweight

Mike,
If you look in any golf magazine, the advertisement for the AVDP Driver lists
the headweight and overall weight for the GBB, Burner Bubble, Cobra TI. Sorry I
don't have a magazine with me or I would have given you the weights.

Rick Sina


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From: "Hasenzahl, Chris" <hasenzahl@strasys.mdc.com>
Date: 1 Aug 1996 07:45:20 -0800
Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Titanium Big Bertha

On the back cover of the "Golf Tips" magazine, in an ad for Goldwin Golf, they
show the component weights for their AVDP System and several of their
competitors. The ad says the Great Big Bertha driver has a total weight of 10.8
oz, with the head weighing in at 6.9 oz.
Chris
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com on Wed, Jul 31, 1996 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Titanium Big Bertha
To: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com

Mike -- According to the Golfsmith Clubmaker the total weight of a Great
Big Bertha driver is 10.75 oz. with a swing weight of D1 on a 44.75 "
firm shaft. --sorry no info on the club head weight.

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To: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 06:38:32 PST
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Titanium Big Bertha
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From: "Whittle, Whit" <Whit.Whittle@scsnet.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:43:00 -0400
Subject: ShopTalk: Suggestions for Beginner

Hello All,

I have just subcribed to this list in the past week and have really been
enjoying it!

I have recently began putting together my first club (A 5-wood with
steel shaft) and have some questions:

1. Are all steel shafts difficult to tip trim? I was not expecting to
have difficulty with this step but I almost ruined the shaft. I tried
to use a hacksaw but finally resorted to a tube cutter.

2. What produces the best results in adrading (sp?) the tip? Also, how
does one tell when the tip has been "roughed-up" enough?

Thanks in advance!

Whit Whittle
Birmingham, AL

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From: Tedd Childers <Tedd_Childers@ncsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 96 13:42:26 EDT
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Suggestions for Beginner

At 10:43 AM 8/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>I have just subcribed to this list in the past week and have really been
>enjoying it!
>
>I have recently began putting together my first club (A 5-wood with
>steel shaft) and have some questions:
>
>1. Are all steel shafts difficult to tip trim? I was not expecting to
>have difficulty with this step but I almost ruined the shaft. I tried
>to use a hacksaw but finally resorted to a tube cutter.
>
>2. What produces the best results in adrading (sp?) the tip? Also, how
>does one tell when the tip has been "roughed-up" enough?
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Whit Whittle
>Birmingham, AL
>
>
In response to your questions:

First, the tip trimming should not be that difficult on a steel shaft. I
have found it is best to use a tubing cutter from Golfsmith that is designed
to cut steel shafts. Regular tubing cutters do not have blades designed to
cut steel, only plastic and copper. I personally have more trouble cutting
the butt end of the shaft, as the shaft walls are thinner and tend to bend
easily. A cutoff wheel on a tablesaw works best, but you probably don't
have one available. Remember that graphite shafts require a special hacksaw
blade. NEVER try to cut graphite with a tubing cutter.

Second, a steel shaft has been roughed up enough when the chrome finish has
been removed. This is very obvious, as the shine is gone fron the metal. I
use emory cloth or 180 grit sandpaper. A belt sander works really well if
you have one. Again, graphite requires special care, and there are scotch
pads available to use for graphite shafts. You need only remove the gloss
finish on graphite. One more point is crimping steel shafts. Some people
do and some don't, but if you follow the instructions on the epoxy, crimping
is not required. Good luck on your future projects.


------------------------------

From: Larry Dorough <ljdoro@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 13:35:39 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Suggestions for Beginner

Whittle, Whit wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> I have just subcribed to this list in the past week and have really been
> enjoying it!
>
> I have recently began putting together my first club (A 5-wood with
> steel shaft) and have some questions:
>
> 1. Are all steel shafts difficult to tip trim? I was not expecting to
> have difficulty with this step but I almost ruined the shaft. I tried
> to use a hacksaw but finally resorted to a tube cutter.
>
> 2. What produces the best results in adrading (sp?) the tip? Also, how
> does one tell when the tip has been "roughed-up" enough?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Whit Whittle
> Birmingham, AL

Whit,

I'm a new subscriber to this service as well (2 days) and really like it
as you do.

I'm by no means as advanced in club making as many of the guys here but
may be a little ahead of you. Give me a call day or night to discuss
your questions. Days: (205) 945-7156/945-7142 Nights: (205) 655-4148

Additionally, there is some really great info on clubmaking and fitting
at http://dunkin.princeton.edu/golf/clubmaking. I really enjoyed the
stuff by Dave Tutelman.

Larry Dorough
Birmingham/Trussville

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From: Dogzilla <dogzilla@atl.mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 18:04:58 -0400
Subject: ShopTalk: Low-loft driver

Anyone know where can get a driver head with a loft of 8-degrees or less?

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From: "Scott, J Michael" <jmike@interramp.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 18:37:02 +0000
Subject: ShopTalk: Shafts for high lofted woods

I just built my wife 3,5,7,and 9 woods using golf smith components.
I used Aldila Low Torque Lady shafts. The triming instructions say
to not trim more than three inches. The wood shafts come out of the
box at 44 inches.
My calculations say that the lady's nine wood should end up at 38
inches total club length.
Obviously, I can't make it work and stay within the 3 inch maximum
trim. Should I use iron shafts that come at 39 inch length for the
high lofted woods?
.....Mike

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From: Heidi Berger-Hansen <dhansen@dhansen.seanet.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 17:58:54 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: epoxy

Is there any difference between shaft epoxy and the epoxy you get at
your local hardware store?

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End of shoptalk-digest V1 #3
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