shoptalk-digest Friday, 9 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number
005
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From: Peter Ainsworth <hughness@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 96 17:45:17 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: (no subject)
Interested in learning how to build my own set of clubs. Any
suggestions on books or mannuals and where can I get them?
------------------------------
From: "Kevin George" <kgeorge@mail.cei.net>
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 08:03:51 +0000
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: (no subject)
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 96 17:45:17 -0700
From: Peter Ainsworth <hughness@earthlink.net>
To: shoptalk@conch.aa.msen.com
Subject: ShopTalk: (no subject)
Reply-to: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com
Interested in learning how to build my own set of clubs. Any
suggestions on books or mannuals and where can I get them?
Golfsmith has several manuals or books available. Call them at
1-800-925-7709 and tell them what you need. They will be glad to
help.
Kevin George
kgeorge@major.cei.net
------------------------------
From: "Craig Calhoun (SAR)" <ccalhoun@virtu.sar.usf.edu>
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:04:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ShopTalk: FAQ's
I am a new member of the mailing list and am interested in the FAQ's.
Could someone please help me out?
ccalhoun@virtu.sar.usf.edu
------------------------------
From: LODISE@mailgate.navsses.navy.mil (Lodise, John)
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 12:59 EST
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Shoptalk
I use XPC plus on Gold Plus Shafts S300 which are comparable to other 'R'
flex shafts. Great shaft, but felt very light at regular length and had
to add weight. You being 5'4" should translate to a shorter shaft
and
therefore an even lower swingweight. So remember to buy some lead weight
or try a TT lite shaft which has the same playing characteristics, but
heavier weight. Remember to read Dave Tutelman's notes at
http://dunkin.princeton.edu/golf/clubmaking to predict swingweight.
------------------------------
From: "Glaser Jonathan" <Glaser_Jonathan@bah.com>
Date: 5 Aug 1996 15:31:35 U
Subject: ShopTalk: Shoptalk -- Ping Scale
Any opinions about the Ping Swingweight scale advertised in the Golfsmith
catalog (#859 for $41.50) ? Is it just inexpensive or accurate as well?
Thanks.
------------------------------
From: "David A. Johnson" <105174.3071@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:58:56 -0400
Subject: ShopTalk: Measuring for fitting irons.
I am making a set of irons for a friend and I have a dilemma. His right
fingertip to floor distance is 27.25". His left side measures 28".
I triple
checked these. Which measurement do I use?
Dave.
------------------------------
From: "Kevin George" <kgeorge@mail.cei.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 17:22:26 +0000
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Measuring for fitting irons.
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:58:56 -0400
From: "David A. Johnson" <105174.3071@compuserve.com>
Subject: ShopTalk: Measuring for fitting irons.
To: Shoptalk <Shoptalk@conch.aa.msen.com>
Reply-to: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com
I am making a set of irons for a friend and I have a dilemma. His right
fingertip to floor distance is 27.25". His left side measures 28".
I triple
checked these. Which measurement do I use?
Dave.
Use the left if he plays righthanded, the right if he plays
lefthanded.
weedcutter
Take Dead Aim!
------------------------------
From: djmiller@wolf.co.net (Daniel J. Miller)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:41:38 -0500
Subject: ShopTalk: Graphite Shaft Removal
I need help! I have a heat gun and a prying bar. I tried to remove a
graphite shaft from a Golfsmith Ti Alloy Jetstream head. After what seemed
like forever, the head still would not come loose. Finally the shaft broke
near the tip of the hosel. What went wrong? Is it because the Ti Alloy
head is mostly aluminum? It seemed like the heat dispersed throughout the
head so fast that the hosel didn't heat up enough. Should I expect this
much trouble from a graphite shaft in a steel head? I have successfully
removed steel from steel without a problem, although you can twist that
combination.
Also: Now that the shaft has broken, how can I remove it from the hosel?
HELP! I'd appreciate any input you may have.
Thanks!
Dan
djm
------------------------------
From: YMRN29A@prodigy.com (MR WILLIAM F ABBOTT)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 23:03:18, -0500
Subject: ShopTalk: Frequency Matched Shafts
If you would like to order graphite shafts, with a frequency rating,
contact Apache Golf at (800) 275-3401
------------------------------
From: CSPG70A@prodigy.com (MR JIM P MURPHREY)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 23:01:53, -0500
Subject: ShopTalk: Shoptalk -- Ping Scale
Glaser:
I have 2 of these scales and have used them for 10 years. They are
both accurate as I have checked them against other scales. The
reason I have 2 is that I moved and lost the slide weight. I called
Ping to get it replaced and was told that each weight is calibrated
to each scale. So, they just sent me a new scale at no charge. Then,
you guessed it, I found the slide weight to the original scale.
------------------------------
From: George Albertson <george@olywa.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:33:51 -0700
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Shoptalk -- Ping Scale
At 11:01 PM 8/5/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Glaser:
>I have 2 of these scales and have used them for 10 years. They are
>both accurate as I have checked them against other scales. The
>reason I have 2 is that I moved and lost the slide weight. I called
>Ping to get it replaced and was told that each weight is calibrated
>to each scale. So, they just sent me a new scale at no charge. Then,
> you guessed it, I found the slide weight to the original scale.
>
Jim:
Do you want to sell the extra one?
If you do e-mail me at: george@olywa.net or call me at (360) 456 4648
George
------------------------------
From: "Glaser Jonathan" <Glaser_Jonathan@bah.com>
Date: 6 Aug 1996 10:05:51 U
Subject: ShopTalk: More Qs
If anyone has read the Design Notes from Dave Tutelman (very helpful) I
have
two questions on the "data points" for swingweight approximation:
1) Do the data points for the Driver, 4-iron, and 9-iron assume standard
50
gram grips? Should it matter?
2) The 1996 Golfsmith catalog (page 217) explains that 4 grams of grip weight
= 1 SW point while Dave T claims that 6 grams of grip weight = 1 SW point.
Any
thoughts?
and....
3) The approximate swingweight for a new set of irons im going to build
(one
day!) is 3 points light (C-7). Should I get to D-0 with lead weights in
the
shaft/hosel (im NOT putting in weight ports) or lighter grips? Which is
the
preferred method in your opinion?
Thanks in advance for your help and patience.
J Glaser
PS Someone please tell me if im abusing this mailing list -- thanks.
------------------------------
From: "EARL W. BLASIMAN" <eblasmn@wcnet.org>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:00:17 -0400
Subject: ShopTalk: Countersinking hosel
I am installing an Aldilla Low Torque Plus shaft on an Acer 7 wood
head. The manufacturer
recommends countersinking and deburring the hosel on the metal head
when installing a
graphite shaft. Does everyone do this?
Golfsmith and Golfworks both want $30.00 for the cheapest
countersink bit. Since I am only making
one club this adds quite a bit to the cost. Is there a cheaper way?
Thank You.
EARL W. BLASIMAN
eblasmn@wcnet.org
------------------------------
From: LODISE@mailgate.navsses.navy.mil (Lodise, John)
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 16:56 EST
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Countersinking hosel
When I asked Golfsmith about countersinking for graphite shafts, they
stated it was pre-done on most of their heads. I was even willing to pay
them to do it. I have installed graphite shafts on Jetstream, XPC Plus
and XPC 2000 without any "additional" countersinking and have
not had a
problem yet. I'm not sure about Acer heads.
I have also used the Aldila Low Torque Plus before, but find it too
tip flexible for the average player seeking control. Even the "firm"
was way too whippy for its rating of up to 100mph RSSR. I recommend
this shaft only to those with slower swing speeds and needing higher ball
trajectory.
John in phalli
------------------------------
From: Steve Kinley <skinl19@idt.net>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 18:13:42 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: Stealth Components
I am looking for the source of "Stealth" components. I recently
purchased a driver with one of their forged titanium heads, the
bomber,great big body, and would like to make up some of my own and with
different lofts.
------------------------------
From: TRGuenther@aol.com
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:46:02 -0400
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: More Qs
In a message dated 96-08-06 10:10:46 EDT, you write:
<< Subj: ShopTalk: More Qs
Date: 96-08-06 10:10:46 EDT
From: Glaser_Jonathan@bah.com (Glaser Jonathan)
Sender: owner-shoptalk@conch.aa.msen.com
Reply-to: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com
To: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com
If anyone has read the Design Notes from Dave Tutelman (very helpful) I
have
two questions on the "data points" for swingweight approximation:
1) Do the data points for the Driver, 4-iron, and 9-iron assume standard
50
gram grips? Should it matter?
2) The 1996 Golfsmith catalog (page 217) explains that 4 grams of grip
weight
= 1 SW point while Dave T claims that 6 grams of grip weight = 1 SW point.
Any
thoughts?
and....
3) The approximate swingweight for a new set of irons im going to build
(one
day!) is 3 points light (C-7). Should I get to D-0 with lead weights in
the
shaft/hosel (im NOT putting in weight ports) or lighter grips? Which is
the
preferred method in your opinion?
Thanks in advance for your help and patience.
J Glaser
PS Someone please tell me if im abusing this mailing list -- thanks.
>>
Here's my take (other opinions may vary):
1.) I believe you are referring to the sensitivity tables in Article 3.4.1.
If so, these are independent of grip weight. In other words, no it
shouldn't matter.
2.) If you assume that the grip is about 10 inches long, and the center
of
gravity is about 4 inches from the butt, then theoretically 5 grams of grip
weight adds one swingweight point. If you want to see the math (note one
sw
point = 50 gram-inches):
50 grams-inches/sw pt
- --------------------------------- = 5.0 grams/sw pt.
(14 inches - 4 inches)
I have found the 5 grams/sw pt to be pretty accurate (also it's a nice
compromise between the two examples you cited).
3.) This is a matter of opinion. You may have a problem finding the grips
you like in the required weight (45 grams by my method). If you put too
much
weight in the hosel, you can affect the location of the center of gravity
(sweet spot) of the club head. I read somewhere that about 4 sw points
worth
of weight in the hosel is about the limit without affecting the sweet spot.
You may want to try a combination of hosel weight/grip weight. Lead tape
on
the back of the club head is the best way to go, but it doesn't look as
clean
(but that doesn't seem to bother the pro's).
Keep in mind that all your calculations are theoretical. Club head weights
can vary from the published data, and you may not cut the shaft exactly
the
right length, which will also affect swing weight. You may be surprised
by
the swingweight when you actually put the club together.
PS) You are NOT abusing this mailing list! Helping each other build better
clubs is one of the primary purposes of this list. Good luck and keep the
questions coming.
Tom Guenther
------------------------------
From: Bluegill12@aol.com
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:48:00 -0400
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Countersinking hosel
YOU CAN BUY A ROTARY RASP AT YOUR LOCAL HARDWARE STORE. $3.00
IT HAS A 1/4" SHANK TO FIT IN YOUR DRILL MOTOR.
------------------------------
From: A02CSM1@MVS.CSO.NIU.EDU
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 96 04:26 CDT
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Countersinking hosel
*Message-Id: <9608062000.AA27624@woody.wcnet.org>
*To: ShopTalk <ShopTalk@MAIL.MSEN.COM>
*Subject: ShopTalk: Countersinking hosel
*From: "EARL W. BLASIMAN" <eblasmn@WCNET.ORG>
*X-Mailer: PROCOMM PLUS 3.0 for Windows
*Mime-Version: 1.0
*Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
*Sender: owner-shoptalk@CONCH.AA.MSEN.COM
*Precedence: bulk
*Reply-To: ShopTalk@CONCH.AA.MSEN.COM
*
*I am installing an Aldilla Low Torque Plus shaft on an Acer 7 wood
*head. The manufacturer
*recommends countersinking and deburring the hosel on the metal head
*when installing a
*graphite shaft. Does everyone do this?
*
*Golfsmith and Golfworks both want $30.00 for the cheapest
*countersink bit. Since I am only making
*one club this adds quite a bit to the cost. Is there a cheaper way?
*Thank You.
*
*EARL W. BLASIMAN
*eblasmn@wcnet.org
*
Earl,
It is absolutely essential to have the hosel properly prepared when
installing graphite shafts. If the hosel is not coned there is an
almost certain chance the shaft will break at this point. It is
also recommended you use a ferral the is coned on the inside. This
helps provide a cushion for the shaft. Since you are only doing
one club try using an inexpensive countersink from the local
hardware store. An aside, why does your friend want a graphite shaft
in a 7 wood?
Carl Mc Kinley
Carl's Golf Shop
*
------------------------------
From: tedd_childers@ncsu.edu (Tedd Childers)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 96 08:12:36 EDT
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Stealth Components
>I am looking for the source of "Stealth" components. I recently
>purchased a driver with one of their forged titanium heads, the
>bomber,great big body, and would like to make up some of my own and
with
>different lofts.
>
>Northern Golf in Wisconsin sells the Stealth line of wood heads. They
can
be reached at (414) 255-5879. The company that makes the Stealth Bomber
head is USA Tour.
------------------------------
From: Terry Horn <medt030@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:04:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ShopTalk: swing speed measurement
How accurate is the Beltronics (or similar brand) swing speed measurement
device? Anyone performed any sort of calibration check on these
instruments? Do most of the prolific club makers out there routinely use
these, or do you rely on "average driver distance" or "average
5-iron
distance" conversion estimates instead? Lastly, anyone have experience
with
the True Temper Determinator (alone or in conjunction with a true velocity
measuring device)?
Thanks in advance!
Terry Horn
Birmingham, AL
------------------------------
From: Rick Sina <76145.36@compuserve.com>
Date: 07 Aug 96 17:54:20 EDT
Subject: ShopTalk: Loft/Lie bending machine needed
I'm looking for a used bending machine. Hopefully a complete machine, bar
and
stand but I'll take what I can get.
You can contact me directly at 919-831-4792 during the day or via internet
at
76145.36@compuserve.com.
Rick Sina
------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Glaser Jonathan" <Glaser_Jonathan@bah.com>
Date: 8 Aug 1996 14:39:13 U
Subject: ShopTalk: Ladies Starter Clubs
I am planning to build my fiance a set of clubs as an incentive to get her
to
the course/range. Any recommendations on a steel shaft and clubhead (from
Golfsmith preferably) for a slow-swinging beginner? (I realize it might
not be
enough incentive, but i'll give it my best shot!)
Thanks in advance.
JG
------------------------------
From: sikpup1@ix.netcom.com (Gary L. Rush)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:55:33 -0700
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Ladies Starter Clubs
You wrote:
>
>I am planning to build my fiance a set of clubs as an incentive to get
her to
>the course/range. Any recommendations on a steel shaft and clubhead
(from
>Golfsmith preferably) for a slow-swinging beginner? (I realize it
might not be
>enough incentive, but i'll give it my best shot!)
>Thanks in advance.
>
>JG
>
>
>
I built my wife a set of XPC Plus Ladys (from Golfsmith)
w/ TT Dynalite Gold L-Flex shafts. She's just a beginner
also and loves these clubs. I went all out and built her
a full set figuring I could always sell them if she opted
for something more exciting (like watch paint dry as a buddy's
wife put it). The MOST IMPORTANT thing that was done though
was to send her for lessons w/ a teaching professional. I
feel I build dang nice sticks but my hat goes off to the
most patient people in the world - The Teachers!
You can get group starter rates very reasonable and most
places have loaner clubs (saving you the expense just in
case it doesn't work out. Good luck w/ the Lady!
PS Since my wife took up the game my time on the course
has nearly tripled!!!!
Gary Rush
sikpup1@ix.netcom.com
------------------------------
From: bern@erim.org (Bern Fox)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 96 03:35:45 EDT
Subject: ShopTalk: Ladies Starter Clubs
JG:
For the SO, you can't go wrong with the Lady XPC+ heads
on a True Temper Release (L flex) shaft, try the Avon
#93L or #91L series grip. Good luck:)
- bern -
------------------------------
From: cgdick <cgdick@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 06:42:39 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: ShopTalk: Ferrule Treatment
I had been having at least my share of trouble getting these pesky things
looking right. As in, more time fitting them then the rest of assembly.
My solution tested out well yesterday, without a lot of expense.
Fit the ferrule on a trimmed bit of shaft from the scrap bin, then tighten
the shaft scrap into a 3/8 drill. (I have a holder I can either mount on
bench, or into my 5" vise.) Turn it on and do the inside work with
30
degree reamer (bit for 1/4" drill. Check how the applicable hosel
fits,
and file/sand/buff the spinning ferrule down to size, square the base,
remove, and install on the club shaft.
I've left the final smoothing and polishing until today when I will do
that , trim to length, and grip up.
Try it for yourself, it should work for you too!
Colin
------------------------------
From: Tedd Childers <Tedd_Childers@ncsu.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 96 15:48:15 EDT
Subject: ShopTalk: Brunswick Rifle Shafts
Here is some general information that I feel is important to clubmakers
interested in frequency matching or in using Brunswick frequency matched
shafts. After studying the process of frequency matching, I realized that
it is absolutely imperative to know clubhead weight and final playing length
in order to frequency match shafts. All of the clubmakers who I know that
frequency match clubs do so with the clubhead temporarliy attached to the
shaft, and with the shaft clamped in the machine at the final playing
length. You then tip trim the shaft incremently (while also adjusting the
clamp to compensate for playing length) until you reach the desired
frequency at the desired playing length. This led me to wonder how in the
world Brunswick could sell their shafts as set to a specific frequency
unless they knew the clubhead weight and playing length of the finished
club. A quick call to Brunswick answered my questions. They sell shafts
to
companies like Golfsmith and Golfworks and base the CPM designation upon
each companies "standard" club. In other words, a Rifle 6.5 from
Golfsmith
only plays like a 6.5 if you use Golfsmiths standard, and the same goes
for
Golfworks. If you use clubheads with different weights or you use different
final playing lengths, you will get a different CPM measurement for the
club. The following are the iron standards for Golfsmith and Golfworks,
which I got directly from Brunswick.
Golfsmith: 2-iron 39" playing length D2 swingweight (232
gram head)
5-iron 38" playing length D2 SW (253g head)
Golfworks: 2-iron 39" playing length D3 swingweight (234g
head)
5-iron 38" playing length D3 SW (255g head)
An example of how this all plays out for you is as follows:
I built a set of clubs using the Rifle 6.5 with a final 5-iron playing
length of 38.0" and a head weight of 257 grams. The rep. at Brunswick
calculated that the extra length at D2 swingweight would yield a 6.9 freq.
equivalent, but the club would actually have a D4 swingweight at 257g and
38", so the freq. equivalent would be reduced to 6.3 on their scale.
This
would equal a CPM reading of 306 on the Brunswick freq. analyzer for the
5-iron. Luckily I weighed all of the components so this analysis was
possible. I have read elsewhere (Dave Tutleman's notes) that Brunswick
Rifle (and FCM) shafts are designed to give a sloped freq. match of 4.2
cpm
between clubs, getting stiffer (higher cpm) as the clubs get shorter. Based
on my 5-iron at 306cpm, the 2-iron in this set would have a freq. of
293-294, which exactly matches the 6.3 the rep. quoted. The 6.3 actually
refers to a driver made with a 6.3 Rifle shaft which in this case would
have
a freq. of 263, hence the 6.3 designation. The 2-iron has a freq. of 30
cpm
higher than the driver shaft, which is sort of an industry standard. The
PW
would have a freq. of 326-328 (a Rifle 9.8 equiv.) The other assumptions
made here are that the heads weigh 7 grams difference per club and that
you
make the playing length difference 0.5" per club. As far as I can
tell, the
number designation on Brunswick shafts describes the actual frequency of
the
2 iron in the set, assuming you use the "standard" measurements.
Of course,
no one bothers to tell you this when you buy the shafts. Well, enough
rambling about this subject, as I am sure you are confused now, but I felt
it was important to distribute this info to this forum. I will answer any
questions I can about the subject, as we didn't even talk about constant
verses sloped freq. matching yet.
------------------------------
End of shoptalk-digest V1 #5
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