shoptalk-digest Wednesday, 21 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number 006


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From: johndrew@sn.no (JOHN R. DREW JR.)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 20:37:34 GMT
Subject: ShopTalk: Re: shoptalk-digest V1 #5

On Fri, 9 Aug 1996 15:46:26 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:

>I need help! I have a heat gun and a prying bar. I tried to remove a
>graphite shaft from a Golfsmith Ti Alloy Jetstream head. After what seemed
>like forever, the head still would not come loose. Finally the shaft broke
>near the tip of the hosel. What went wrong? Is it because the Ti Alloy
>head is mostly aluminum? It seemed like the heat dispersed throughout the
>head so fast that the hosel didn't heat up enough. Should I expect this
>much trouble from a graphite shaft in a steel head? I have successfully
>removed steel from steel without a problem, although you can twist that
>combination.
>
>Also: Now that the shaft has broken, how can I remove it from the hosel?
>
>HELP! I'd appreciate any input you may have.

I use the pry bar method and been quite sucessful. That hosel has to
be enough distance from your vice to barely fit that pry bar. While
heating the hosel, pry a little pressure with the pry bar at the same
time. You have to get the head off straight forward. It has to pull
off and not be twisted off like you can do with a steel head

There are more expensive gismos out there to make the job easier, but
that pry bar can do the job if done right.

Hope this was some help.


- --
John Drew
(johndrew@sn.no)
U S Army
NATO Forces-Norway

------------------------------

From: Tedd Childers <Tedd_Childers@ncsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 11:18:17 EDT
Subject: ShopTalk: Rifle shafts

Hello everyone!

On friday, I posted a long message regarding Rifle shafts. I made an error
in the table regarding the shaft length on a "standard" 5-iron from
Golfsmith and Golfworks. If their standard 2-iron is 39" as reported to me
be Brunswick, then the standard 5-iron would be 37.5" NOT the 38" listed in
my table. Just wanted to correct my error.

Tedd


------------------------------

From: av565@rgfn.epcc.Edu
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 13:17:24 MDT
Subject: ShopTalk: Advertising

Has anyone tried pre-printed checks through normal use as a means of advertising your club making business? My wife sells Mary Kay, and as part of their corp set-up, she was given the opportunity to buy checks that had the pre-formatted product pictures. She has acquired 5 new customers in the last 5 days, just by writing checks for our routine buys. Anybody else heard of way to do this in our line? Have sent Mr. Carl Paul (Golfsmith Pres) a letter along same lines, but no response yet. Curious if this would work for us.

------------------------------

From: "Gordon Olson" <G_Olson@mnsinc.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 12:29:29 -0400
Subject: ShopTalk: Practical Clubfitting by Tom Wishon - Golfsmith

Early this year I ordered a copy of the Club Fitting Program from
Golfsmith.
It is still on back order with a current shipping date of mid September.

Is it worth the wait or should I get a different book?

Thanks

Gordon Olson


------------------------------

From: miko@uwo.ca (D. B. Miko)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:57:09 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Practical Clubfitting by Tom Wishon - Golfsmith

>Early this year I ordered a copy of the Club Fitting Program from
>Golfsmith.
>It is still on back order with a current shipping date of mid September.

Cancel the order and get the GolfWorks one!

"my opinions are my own, but I don't mind sharing ..."

db miko
UWO-Hardware Services
519-661-3027



------------------------------

From: Tedd Childers <Tedd_Childers@ncsu.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 96 09:29:39 EDT
Subject: ShopTalk: swingweight

I have a general question for the forum concerning swingweight and final
playing length of clubs. How do you measure your final playing length? Do
you glue the head on the shaft and then cut the shaft to the full playing
length or do you cut it 1/4 inch short to allow for the slight length added
by the grip? Also, does this 1/4 inch overhang of the grip affect
swingweight? Can you effectively reduce swingweight by gripping down
slightly on the club? I am asking because I built a set of irons for myself
and after installing the grips and checking the length, they are 1/2 inch
longer than I intended. This will increase the swingweight 3 points
according to Dave Tutleman's notes. As the estimated swingweight (I don't
have a scale) was D3-D4 at the intended length, I don't want an additional 3
points. Should I remove the grips and butt trim the shafts 1/2 inch, or
just grip down slightly on the grip? If gripping down on the grip will
effectively reduce swingweight, then should ones hand placement on the grip
be considered when building clubs for someone else, as some people grip the
club at the very end and others grip down 1/2 inch or so? Thanks in advance
for your responses.




------------------------------

From: djmiller@wolf.co.net (Daniel J. Miller)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 14:19:38 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: swingweight

Ted wrote:

>I have a general question for the forum concerning swingweight and final
>playing length of clubs. How do you measure your final playing length? Do
>you glue the head on the shaft and then cut the shaft to the full playing
>length or do you cut it 1/4 inch short to allow for the slight length added
>by the grip? Also, does this 1/4 inch overhang of the grip affect
>swingweight? Can you effectively reduce swingweight by gripping down
>slightly on the club? I am asking because I built a set of irons for myself
>and after installing the grips and checking the length, they are 1/2 inch
>longer than I intended. This will increase the swingweight 3 points
>according to Dave Tutleman's notes. As the estimated swingweight (I don't
>have a scale) was D3-D4 at the intended length, I don't want an additional 3
>points. Should I remove the grips and butt trim the shafts 1/2 inch, or
>just grip down slightly on the grip? If gripping down on the grip will
>effectively reduce swingweight, then should ones hand placement on the grip
>be considered when building clubs for someone else, as some people grip the
>club at the very end and others grip down 1/2 inch or so? Thanks in advance
>for your responses.
>
Ted,

I don't have answers to all of your questions, but I keep a couple of grips
on hand that I've removed from "test" clubs that didn't work out well. They
are slit down the side. I've put grip tape on them (actually on the outside
because it was easier!) and as I build clubs, I wrap one of these grips
around the butt end and "tap" it on a piece of wood or the floor to make
sure it's fully "installed". This isn't always 100% accurate, but it helps
with the swingweight and the length. (I have a scale. This wouldn't help
you test swingweight unless you had one too.)

Hope this helps a little,

Dan
djm


------------------------------

From: "Glaser Jonathan" <Glaser_Jonathan@bah.com>
Date: 14 Aug 1996 16:27:32 U
Subject: RE: ShopTalk: swingweight

Oh well... here goes:

1) Golfsmith says to leave 1/4 of an inch for the grip butt cap at the end of
the shaft (p. 28, 2996 catalog) So, if you want to have a final length 36
inch club, cut it to 35 3/4 inches. I like Dan's method better (see below).

2) As far as how to measure, I would recommend measuring from the top of the
grip to the bottom of the clubhead (i.e., where the sole touches the ground
beneath the clubhead sweet spot). If you measure just the shaft, or where the
shaft enters the hosel, you might get 5 different lengths for 5 different
clubheads (compare any forged blade with a VAS+ or Ping iron to see why) This
way, you can make sure a 36' club fits a golfer REGARDLESS of its hosel style.


3) I guess you could customize a club for someone who grips down, but they
probably started doing that because they never had clubs cut to their size.
Im 5'4 and can relate to that tendency. If they had a club cut to their
height/tendencies, they could keep the same stance and posture (assuming thats
correct) and hold the club in the 'correct' spot on the grip. Although I have
no idea how gripping down on the club affects swingweight, swingweight for a
'low gripper' (or anyone else) should not be used as an empirical measure but
a relative measure of heft/feel. If someone who grips down doesnt like the
lightness of a D-1, build them a D-4 (which they might think is too heavy if
they held it higher).

4) As far as swingweight and the 1/4 cut of the shaft for a grip, I think its
safe to assume that the swingweight approximations (not calculations) of Dave
Tutleman take that into account.

Then again, I could be wrong.....
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com on Wed, Aug 14, 1996 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: swingweight
To: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com

Ted wrote:

>I have a general question for the forum concerning swingweight and final
>playing length of clubs. How do you measure your final playing length? Do
>you glue the head on the shaft and then cut the shaft to the full playing
>length or do you cut it 1/4 inch short to allow for the slight length added
>by the grip? Also, does this 1/4 inch overhang of the grip affect
>swingweight? Can you effectively reduce swingweight by gripping down
>slightly on the club? I am asking because I built a set of irons for myself
>and after installing the grips and checking the length, they are 1/2 inch
>longer than I intended. This will increase the swingweight 3 points
>according to Dave Tutleman's notes. As the estimated swingweight (I don't
>have a scale) was D3-D4 at the intended length, I don't want an additional 3
>points. Should I remove the grips and butt trim the shafts 1/2 inch, or
>just grip down slightly on the grip? If gripping down on the grip will
>effectively reduce swingweight, then should ones hand placement on the grip
>be considered when building clubs for someone else, as some people grip the
>club at the very end and others grip down 1/2 inch or so? Thanks in advance
>for your responses.
>
Ted,

I don't have answers to all of your questions, but I keep a couple of grips
on hand that I've removed from "test" clubs that didn't work out well. They
are slit down the side. I've put grip tape on them (actually on the outside
because it was easier!) and as I build clubs, I wrap one of these grips
around the butt end and "tap" it on a piece of wood or the floor to make
sure it's fully "installed". This isn't always 100% accurate, but it helps
with the swingweight and the length. (I have a scale. This wouldn't help
you test swingweight unless you had one too.)

Hope this helps a little,

Dan
djm


------------------------------

From: "Glaser Jonathan" <Glaser_Jonathan@bah.com>
Date: 19 Aug 1996 14:08:30 U
Subject: ShopTalk: Wood clubhead weights

2 Qs:

If a standard driver clubhead weight is 200g, does anyone know what a standard
weight would be for a 3,5,7, and 9 wood clubhead?

AND...

How common is it to short shaft a blind bore metal wood head with a graphite
(or steel) shaft? Im curious whether I should pay Golfsmith to ream and bore
the head for me (@$2.50 per head) or take care of it myself.. any thoughts or
experience with this and what are the preferred tools?

Thanks

PS Built my first 2 clubs this weekend -- a little light and 1/2 inch too
short but they look great. Onwards and upwards!

------------------------------

From: Tedd Childers <Tedd_Childers@ncsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 96 15:45:37 EDT
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Wood clubhead weights

At 02:08 PM 8/19/96 U, you wrote:
>2 Qs:
>
>If a standard driver clubhead weight is 200g, does anyone know what a standard
>weight would be for a 3,5,7, and 9 wood clubhead?
>
>AND...
>
>How common is it to short shaft a blind bore metal wood head with a graphite
>(or steel) shaft? Im curious whether I should pay Golfsmith to ream and bore
>the head for me (@$2.50 per head) or take care of it myself.. any thoughts or
>experience with this and what are the preferred tools?
>
>Thanks
>
>PS Built my first 2 clubs this weekend -- a little light and 1/2 inch too
>short but they look great. Onwards and upwards!
>
>
From my experience, a 3-wood generally weighs 7-9 grams more than a driver
and a 5 wood weighs 7-9 more grams more than a 3-wood. Most irons have 7
gram weight difference between clubs, and I think most woods have about 8
gram weight differentials. This is kind of counterintuitive, as the driver
head is always the largest, but weighs the least.

------------------------------

From: drg3@juno.com (Donald R Gasler)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 04:37:11 PST
Subject: [none]

Where can I get a good thourough club fitting on the Internet or
elsewhere?

------------------------------

From: drg3@juno.com (Donald R Gasler)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 05:04:04 PST
Subject: [none]

Question to all:

My father wants to make a 3 wood,
but he wants to make it only 40" long.

Question is, do we have to have the head bent up to compensate for the
short length?

We are also interested in applying this info to other woods, 5,7,9 etc.

Thanks.

DRG

------------------------------

From: mpace@juno.com (Morgan W Pace)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 07:52:26 PST
Subject: ShopTalk: Titanium, Ti Alloys, Advantages of 230cc + metal wood heads (real or imagined).

I am fairly new on Shoptalk; If the following questions have been asked
previously I would appreciate receiving a repeat of the reply.

Most component catalogs appear to represent 6AL-4V Titanium as " Pure
Titaniun" and consider it the most desirable metal for oversize,
perimeter weighted club heads.
Is this substantially true ??

One component catalog I received offered a club head it called a "new
Beta Titanium head That is stronger and harder than T.64". It was
priced somewhat higher than heads made of 6AL-4V. Anyone have pro or
con thoughts on this claim.

I have seen fairly large heads on clubs sold at discount stores marked
"Magnesium/Titanium Alloy". The price on these clubs caused me to be
dubious of their quality. Am I just a skeptic ?

Yet another component catalog offers a "Duraluminum 7005 T4" head of
almost 300cc in volume; another lists a head that shows a "15-5" Ti
alloy; and to complete my confusion one supplier offers a club head with
"100% Ti body with an aluminum-vanadium reinforced face for strength".

I have no desire to become an expert on Titanium or metallurgy in general
but would like to receive any pragmatic advice on the subject anyone has
to offer.


mpace

------------------------------

From: cgdick <cgdick@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 06:16:40 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Wood clubhead weights

On 19 Aug 1996, Glaser Jonathan wrote:

> 2 Qs:
>
> If a standard driver clubhead weight is 200g, does anyone know what a standard
> weight would be for a 3,5,7, and 9 wood clubhead?

Golfsmith catalog says their standard 1W is 199 grams, 3W 211, 5W 223,
7W 235. Graphite weighted are 10 grams more. Industry vary from 8-10 on
graphite weight differences. See Page 42!
>
> AND...
>
> How common is it to short shaft a blind bore metal wood head with a graphite
> (or steel) shaft? Im curious whether I should pay Golfsmith to ream and bore
> the head for me (@$2.50 per head) or take care of it myself.. any thoughts or
> experience with this and what are the preferred tools?

Short Shafting is a no-no, almost certain to break shaft. The catalog has
a paragraph on this topic.

Colin



------------------------------

From: "Hasenzahl, Chris" <hasenzahl@strasys.mdc.com>
Date: 20 Aug 1996 08:38:09 -0800
Subject: ShopTalk: Looking for a Grip

I have been using Tour Wrap style grips on my woods for a while now and would
like to put them on my Hogan Apex irons. However, the Apex Extra shaft I am
playing is a light weight steel and has a butt diameter of 0.620". A tried
a.600 core, but it gives me an oversize that is unacceptably large. I have
looked through all the major (Dynacraft, Golfworks & Golfsmith) suppliers
catalogs, and have only found the Victory composition grip in a .620 core.

I need to find a place which sells a Tour Wrap, black, round and perforated
grip with a .620 core. I want to buy one dozen grips. Has anyone seen this size
in any suppliers catalog?

Thanks in advance,
Chris in Dove Canyon, CA
hasenzahl@strasys.mdc.com

------------------------------

From: "Glaser Jonathan" <Glaser_Jonathan@bah.com>
Date: 20 Aug 1996 15:35:25 U
Subject: ShopTalk: Shafting Beads

Has anyone used the shafting beads offered in the Golfsmith catalog (#9082).
They are supposed to "ensure an adequate cushion between the shaft and hosel
wall"...im a little suspicious ...... Any thoughts?
&
Does anyone use graphite shafting epoxy instead of regular epoxy when using
graphite shafts?

Thanks.

------------------------------

From: Tedd Childers <Tedd_Childers@ncsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 96 15:57:32 EDT
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Looking for a Grip

At 08:38 AM 8/20/96 -0800, you wrote:
>I have been using Tour Wrap style grips on my woods for a while now and would
>like to put them on my Hogan Apex irons. However, the Apex Extra shaft I am
>playing is a light weight steel and has a butt diameter of 0.620". A tried
>a.600 core, but it gives me an oversize that is unacceptably large. I have
>looked through all the major (Dynacraft, Golfworks & Golfsmith) suppliers
>catalogs, and have only found the Victory composition grip in a .620 core.
>
>I need to find a place which sells a Tour Wrap, black, round and perforated
>grip with a .620 core. I want to buy one dozen grips. Has anyone seen this size
>in any suppliers catalog?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Chris in Dove Canyon, CA
>hasenzahl@strasys.mdc.com
>
>

The problem is that this is a non-standard shaft butt diameter. I would bet
that most grip manufacturers don't even make a grip in this core size. I
would contact Hogan and see if they have Tour Wrap style grips in the .620
core size. If that doesn't work, and you can't find any .620 core grips,
then you can install the .600 core grip and just stretch it down the shaft
while it dries. This will make the grip smaller, although I'm not exactly
sure by how much. Good luck finding the grips.


------------------------------

From: Tim Janzer <hightech@MNSi.Net>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:53:47 -0400
Subject: ShopTalk: Putter Grips

I am looking for a supplier of a putting grip. The name on the grip is
"TOSKI" I think. The name is pretty worn. The grip is made of foam and is
white and black(looks somewhat like a zebra). Any info would be appreciated.

------------------------------

From: miko@uwo.ca (D. B. Miko)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:05:06 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Shafting Beads

>Has anyone used the shafting beads offered in the Golfsmith catalog (#9082).
>They are supposed to "ensure an adequate cushion between the shaft and hosel
>wall"...im a little suspicious ...... Any thoughts?

Shafting beads are of value, possibly necessary for composite-taper-tip
installation, (keeps you from pushing all the glue out),

AND

for composite shafts in Titanium wood installations...

A number of suppliers are now recommending that you
allow the epoxy to harden with the shaft parallel to the ground!
This is to keep epoxy beads and cones from forming, and breaking off
causing rattles in the hollow body metal-woods...

The problem with this is that you may not have the shaft
centred in the hosel, and a stress point will be caused.
Shafting beads will keep the shaft centred in the
hosel, even when laying horizontal...

>Does anyone use graphite shafting epoxy instead of regular epoxy
> when using graphite shafts?

I've never seen it...


miko



------------------------------

From: Reg Hardy <datanet@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:38:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ShopTalk: Re:

At 04:37 AM 8/24/96 PST, you wrote:
>Where can I get a good thourough club fitting on the Internet or
>elsewhere?

Just noticed your message in ShopTalk, I do club fittings via E-mail and also
assemble Clubs to order.

Reg Hardy
ClubsFit 4-U
Nashua, NH

Datanet@earthlink.net


------------------------------

From: miko <miko@julian.uwo.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:37:55 -0400
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Putter Grips

Tim Janzer wrote:
>
> I am looking for a supplier of a putting grip. The name on the grip is
> "TOSKI" I think. The name is pretty worn. The grip is made of foam and is
> white and black(looks somewhat like a zebra). Any info would be appreciated.

Sounds like the TOSKI Target grip

Try calling Ryobi-Toski
1-800-848-2075
While they may not sell to you,
they should be able to put you in
touch with one of their dealers...

- --
| |

db miko
Mac Shack Golf
PCS-Class A Clubmaker
London, Ontario, CANADA

------------------------------

From: miko <miko@julian.uwo.ca>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:17:37 -0400
Subject: ShopTalk: Re: Want to build a 40" - 3 wood

Donald R Gasler wrote:
>
> Question to all:
>
> My father wants to make a 3 wood,
> but he wants to make it only 40" long.
>
> Question is, do we have to have the head bent up to compensate for the
> short length?

Perhaps not.

The directional problems caused by improper are very pronounced
with the more lofted clubs.

Also, the woods, more so than the irons, tend to 'droop' through
impact, so the effect will be less pronounced than it looks
from the static setup.

I would expect the tough part to be getting the flex correct
with the shorter length shaft...

Also try to look for a 'keel-bottom' wood, like the Louisville
Niblick, or the Dynacraft Limited.

Best of luck :{)



>
> We are also interested in applying this info to other woods, 5,7,9 etc.
>
> Thanks.
>
> DRG

- --
| |

db miko
Mac Shack Golf
PCS-Class A Clubmaker
London, Ontario, CANADA

------------------------------

From: ak.mcphie@cyberstore.ca (Alan K. McPhie)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:19:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Re:

>At 04:37 AM 8/24/96 PST, you wrote:
>>Where can I get a good thourough club fitting on the Internet or
>>elsewhere?
>
>
>Just noticed your message in ShopTalk, I do club fittings via E-mail and also
>assemble Clubs to order.
>
>Reg Hardy
>ClubsFit 4-U
>Nashua, NH
>
>Datanet@earthlink.net
>
How on earth do you think it possible to fit clubs without having someone
see you hit a ball, check your speed and load, verify your club lie angle.
Don't fall for this via email, or fax, or phone, or anything except personal
confrontation.

------------------------------

End of shoptalk-digest V1 #6
****************************