shoptalk-digest Wednesday, 28 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number 007


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Pat/Suzanne Donnelly" <Pat_Donnelly@mindlink.bc.ca>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 06:01:14 -0700
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Re:

Also beware of computer analysers who do not question your whole setup,
swing ,grip and follow through . Swing path and clubhead speed mean nothing
if on their own.
Pat

- ----------
> From: Alan K. McPhie <ak.mcphie@cyberstore.ca>
> To: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com
> Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Re:
> Date: August 20, 1996 10:19 PM
>
> >At 04:37 AM 8/24/96 PST, you wrote:
> >>Where can I get a good thourough club fitting on the Internet or
> >>elsewhere?
> >
> >
> >Just noticed your message in ShopTalk, I do club fittings via E-mail and
also
> >assemble Clubs to order.
> >
> >Reg Hardy
> >ClubsFit 4-U
> >Nashua, NH
> >
> >Datanet@earthlink.net
> >
> How on earth do you think it possible to fit clubs without having someone
> see you hit a ball, check your speed and load, verify your club lie
angle.
> Don't fall for this via email, or fax, or phone, or anything except
personal
> confrontation.

------------------------------

From: mpace@juno.com (Morgan W Pace)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 08:17:16 PST
Subject: ShopTalk: Checking the loft of iron heads

I built an iron loft gauge similar in design to the typical commercial
models sold to club makers. It works fine on club to club comparisons
but my attempts to calibrate the darn thing have been unsuccessful. I
used a large protractor (and also a carpenters square) to establish a
reference at 45 degrees based on the line made by the leading edge of a
shaft in relation to a club face, but my base reference (at 45 degrees)
is significantly off (about 5 degrees) when compared to various club
heads that have measured out in the 47 to 50 degree range.

The gauge has a recess on the top edge to accommodate the hosel to club
face transition and seems to measure loft consistently, but I must be
overlooking a factor that manufacturers use in measuring the loft of
iron clubs. Any suggestions to help with this mystery would be
appreciated.



mpace.

------------------------------

From: Barry Vonada <golfman@gvi.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:35:59 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Re:

Alan K. McPhie wrote:
>
> >At 04:37 AM 8/24/96 PST, you wrote:
> >>Where can I get a good thourough club fitting on the Internet or
> >>elsewhere?
> >
> >
> >Just noticed your message in ShopTalk, I do club fittings via E-mail and also
> >assemble Clubs to order.
> >
> >Reg Hardy
> >ClubsFit 4-U
> >Nashua, NH
> >
> >Datanet@earthlink.net
> >
> How on earth do you think it possible to fit clubs without having someone
> see you hit a ball, check your speed and load, verify your club lie angle.
> Don't fall for this via email, or fax, or phone, or anything except personal
> confrontation.

AMEN! Might as well go buy a set off the rack.

------------------------------

From: cgdick <cgdick@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:50:05 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Checking the loft of iron heads

On Wed, 21 Aug 1996, Morgan W Pace wrote:

> I built an iron loft gauge similar in design to the typical commercial
> models sold to club makers. It works fine on club to club comparisons
> but my attempts to calibrate the darn thing have been unsuccessful. I
> used a large protractor (and also a carpenters square) to establish a
> reference at 45 degrees based on the line made by the leading edge of a
> shaft in relation to a club face, but my base reference (at 45 degrees)
> is significantly off (about 5 degrees) when compared to various club
> heads that have measured out in the 47 to 50 degree range.

I'm working on one myself, but haven't got it going yet. Mine will have a
'face' parallel to the base, then a 22" protractor constructed on paper
with the angles drawn in 2 degree increments. I did one a few years ago,
but cannot find it again.

Some drafting 30, 60, and 45 degree drafting squares have been helpful, as
also some cosine or cotangent functions in plotting angles.

> Any suggestions to help with this mystery would be
> appreciated.

Good luck,

Colin



------------------------------

From: Steve Kinley <skinl19@idt.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:09:47 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: Zebra or Odyssey putter heads

I am looking for component putter heads in Zebra and Odyssey mallet
style, with the alignment stripes and removable weights. The ones I've
seen in Golfsmith don't have either. Their weight adjustable model is
only sold as a complete club. Any others out there?

------------------------------

From: A02CSM1@MVS.CSO.NIU.EDU
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 96 05:27 CDT
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Putter Grips

I have used this grip, thought it came from Golfsmith but I
dont find it in this years catalog(perhaps 95?). If not it must
be Golfworks(dont have their catalog handy). If you dont have
any luck let me know, I might be talked into parting with the
one I have;-).

Carl Mc Kinley
Carl's Golf Shop

------------------------------

From: "Glaser Jonathan" <Glaser_Jonathan@bah.com>
Date: 23 Aug 1996 10:36:12 U
Subject: ShopTalk: Ping Color Codes

Does anyone know what the PING color codes for irons and woods translate to in
the real world ? (For example: an Orange code means the club is 1/4"short, 1
degree flat)

Just curious if anyone knows or cares. Thanks in advance.


------------------------------

From: Parin Mekabut <pmekabut@CLIFF.BACKBONE.ou.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:47:24 -0700
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Ping Color Codes

I called Ping and they did not tell me what the lie was.
I measured it myself and I think I did a good measurment.
Orange is 59 degrees for irons.
Moreover, orange does not mean that it is shorter than standard. You can
have a standard length with any color codes. Usually, the floor
measurment will initially indicate the length and color will be
determine
dynamically.

Glaser Jonathan wrote:
>
> Does anyone know what the PING color codes for irons and woods translate to in
> the real world ? (For example: an Orange code means the club is 1/4"short, 1
> degree flat)
>
> Just curious if anyone knows or cares. Thanks in advance.

------------------------------

From: Al Waschka <awaschka@palmnet.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 21:05:59 -0400
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Ping Color Codes

At 10:36 AM 8/23/96 U, you wrote:
>Does anyone know what the PING color codes for irons and woods translate to in
>the real world ? (For example: an Orange code means the club is 1/4"short, 1
>degree flat)
>
>Just curious if anyone knows or cares. Thanks in advance.
>
>

I think I saw a comprehensive chart on loft, lie, and length, by color code,
on Ping's web site, www.pinggolf.com. Check it out and look around. I
can't go verify it right now as I took a lightning hit and am reduced to
2400 baud old modem which is only good for E-Mail, not browsing.

Good Luck -

Al


------------------------------

From: 7warhank <7warhank@initco.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 09:04:29 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: (no subject)

i was wondering what kind of club the new penick line is. had any one tried them?
please send me your verdict.

7warhank@mail.initco.net

------------------------------

From: 7warhank <7warhank@initco.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 10:03:02 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: (no subject)

has anyone tried the winn grips, i have heard they absorb more shock, does any one know
were i could get them?

------------------------------

From: miko <miko@julian.uwo.ca>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 15:12:01 -0400
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: (no subject)

7warhank wrote:
>
> has anyone tried the winn grips, i have heard they absorb more shock,
> does any one know were i could get them?

Check the Winn posting at Clubmaker-Online...

http://www.clubmaker-online.com/virtualtradeshow.html

Seems to me that John also tested them out on a set of clubs,
you should be able to find the review somewhere there ...

- --
| |

db miko
Mac Shack Golf
PCS-Class A Clubmaker
London, Ontario, CANADA

------------------------------

From: elw1933@earthlink.net
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 06:07:41 -0400
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: (no subject)

I build clubs as a hobby, and buy the majority of my components are from
Golfsmith.

I've recently built three sets of Penick irons. One for myself and two
sets for friends - and we love them.

There is one big difference, however, in that I build all my clubs with
ultralight shafts, since I find that they increased clubhead speed
immensely. I used Graffalloy "Attacklite" shafts (regular). The clubhead
design is quite good - peripheral weighting on the sole of the clubs
allow for solid hits, and the design seems to automatically set your
hands forward. Additionally, instead of pitching wedge and gap wedge,
set has 10 and 11 irons - less bounce, which is helpful here in Florida.
I also use the 42 gram Griptec grips, which are lighter than standard
grips. Between the light shafts and grips, I can really feel the head on
these clubs.

As an aside - I've also built several sets of woods with the Aldalight
shafts. I've found them to be excellent.

Hope this helps.

Don

------------------------------

From: "Ralph Harwood" <Ralph_Harwood@mail.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 16:18:46 EST
Subject: ShopTalk: scuff marks

Would anyone recommend a good product to remove scuff marks made by
golfballs on the part of a metalwood where the top of the head meets
the face of the wood. This is a Callaway Big Bertha I am talking
about.

Thanks in advance!!

------------------------------

From: bern@erim.org (Bern Fox)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 04:03:17 EDT
Subject: ShopTalk: scuff marks

Ralph:

In assending order of abrasiveness, try Colgate toothpaste,
automotive polishing compound and/or automotive rubbing
compound to remove ball marks from clubheads. Good luck.

- bern -

------------------------------

From: Joakim Thrane <Joakim.Thrane@bebslint.origin.nl>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:14:10 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: Club flex , Center of Gravity, Dave Tutelman E-mail Address

>I have two main questions or cry for help that you might be able to help
>me with ? I was going to ask Dave as they are directly related to his
>articles (which are a treat to read) but cannot find a e-mail address, do
>you have one ?
>
>1. I have a tendency to strike shots slightly towards the heel. This I
>know is due to a swing fault but the fact remains. Could it be possible
>that I would gain from moving the CG towards the heel by adding weight in
>the tip part of the shaft ? Could my club lie play a part in this ?
>
>2. I am a 1 hdc playing brunswick shafts. My problem is that the
>clubmaker does not exist anymore and where I live there are no one who
>can measure the frequency of my clubs, SO I don't really know what I am
>playing and cannot replace broken clubs either. I did however find some
>information on my clubs. Could you verify whether these stats make sense
>or not ?
>Has the clubmaket trimmed the shaft in a specific way ?
>What can I do to find the right specs if I beak a club o would like to
>replace the set ?
>
>I have a swingspeed of about 82 with a 5 iron.
>5 iron stats are as follows :
>
>D1 swing weight, "standard lenght"
>headweight 260grams
>1.8 torque
>332 CPM
>6.0 FM Precision Brunwich shaft
>
>Any help would be really welcome.
>
>Regards from Belgium, Europe

------------------------------

From: "Luc Despars" <desparsl@sp-agency.ca>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 15:05:17 EDT
Subject: ShopTalk: VIPER TEK IRONS

Has anyone heard of those irons. Apparently, they are suppose to make the
ball stop faster on the green. Someone told me that they are U.S.G.A.
approved. I don't think they are the same irons as the King Cobra
knock-off.

Luc Despars
desparsl@sp-agency.ca

------------------------------

From: "Luc Despars" <desparsl@sp-agency.ca>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 15:10:21 EDT
Subject: ShopTalk: New Clubs

Again, I just sold my clubs (Big Brother irons) to someone and I need to
get some new ones. Do you realize how difficult it is for a clubmaker to
get himself so new clubs because everytime I finish a new set for someone,
I feel that they are just beautiful and that they feel great. Now I have to
decide what clubs I am gonna use. My heart goes with the XR II from
PoleKat. Nice finish look with great feeling when hitting them. I hit 13
greens in regulation in one game this year with these clubs. Best ever.
Coudn't put

Any suggestions!!!

Luc Despars
desparsl@sp-agency.ca

------------------------------

From: djmiller@wolf.co.net (Daniel J. Miller)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:59:05 -0500
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: New Clubs

Luc Wrote:

>Again, I just sold my clubs (Big Brother irons) to someone and I need to
>get some new ones. Do you realize how difficult it is for a clubmaker to
>get himself so new clubs because everytime I finish a new set for someone,
>I feel that they are just beautiful and that they feel great. Now I have to
>decide what clubs I am gonna use. My heart goes with the XR II from
>PoleKat. Nice finish look with great feeling when hitting them. I hit 13
>greens in regulation in one game this year with these clubs. Best ever.
>Coudn't put
>
>Any suggestions!!!
>
>Luc Despars
>desparsl@sp-agency.ca
>

Luc,

I also sold my clubs. And I don't usually have that luxury since I'm
left-handed! (Harvey Pennick irons, Golfsmith Filament Wound graphite
shafts.) Since I had a little advance notice, I made a set of Golfsmith
Sterlings for myself prior to the sale. I wanted to keep costs down, so I
could sell them later, so I used the Golfsmith Carbon Tour 5.0 graphite
shafts. This produced a full set of irons for under $200!

Now for the strange thing: I've been hitting these "cheap" clubs better
than the premium ones. (I needed the 2 degrees upright in the lie, so that
helps.) They've been very solid, and also very easy to control. Since I
like to "feel" each shot, I trimmed 1/4 inch less from each shaft for a
little lighter flex.

I'd recommend this combination to anyone. I hesitated because I'm an 8
handicap, but I've encountered no problems at all. Try 'em, I think you'll
like 'em!

Anybody else had experience with Golfsmith Sterling irons?

Dan
djm


------------------------------

From: cgdick <cgdick@freenet.calgary.ab.ca>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 05:12:19 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: New Clubs

On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Luc Despars wrote:

> Again, I just sold my clubs (Big Brother irons) to someone and I need to
> get some new ones. Do you realize how difficult it is for a clubmaker to

> decide what clubs I am gonna use. My heart goes with the XR II from
> PoleKat. Nice finish look with great feeling when hitting them. I hit 13
> greens in regulation in one game this year with these clubs. Best ever.

My local supplier has BB Irons, both bore-thru and not, LH and RH listed
at 11.97 ea. +GST. Buy 2 sets and you should get them for 11.40 ea.

> Coudn't put
>
> Any suggestions

Learn how! I hit my low point 2 years ago. 9 holes, 4x 3putt, 2x 4 putt!

Tried the crossover style, but not for me. Thought about it, and noted
the big reason for doing it was left shoulder down. Back to the regular
style, BUT, I stick my left elbow out, which lowers my left shoulder. My
putting varies, but ever so often, it is good. Drop a few long ones,
generally very close, etc.

"The only part of my game I can count on day-to-day, week-to-week,
year-to-year is the 3 putting."

Colin.


------------------------------

From: 7warhank <7warhank@initco.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 07:24:50 -0700
Subject: ShopTalk: (no subject)

i recently made a golfworks over the hosel putter. when i tap it on the ground it fells
like the peg is loose how could i fix this

------------------------------

From: "Glaser Jonathan" <Glaser_Jonathan@bah.com>
Date: 28 Aug 1996 13:36:50 U
Subject: ShopTalk: Dynacraft Clubs

Does anyone have any experience with the Dynacraft Oversize Irons (#5352)?
How do they play compared to similarly designed clubs (Golfsmith OS Project,
Golfworks, etc.)?

Out of curiosity, how much of a club's performance do y'all think is related
to the clubhead versus the shaft. (I realize that its REALLY 100% related to
the golfer). On a 'philosophical level' -- for the same golfer, do you think
its 80% shaft performance versus 20% clubhead or something a bit more even?(
70/30, 50/50, etc.)

I have no idea why it matters but there's no harm askin.

JGG

------------------------------

From: "Ralph Harwood" <Ralph_Harwood@mail.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 14:45:54 EST
Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Dynacraft Clubs

I believe that the clubhead is important in how it looks to the person
swinging the club. The weight of the head from one brand or style to
another is a factor but not quite as much as much as the first factor.

I still believe it may be pushing 90% in the shaft that determines the
club performance.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: ShopTalk: Dynacraft Clubs
Author: ShopTalk@conch.aa.msen.com at Internet
Date: 8/28/96 2:33 PM


Does anyone have any experience with the Dynacraft Oversize Irons (#5352)?
How do they play compared to similarly designed clubs (Golfsmith OS Project,
Golfworks, etc.)?

Out of curiosity, how much of a club's performance do y'all think is related
to the clubhead versus the shaft. (I realize that its REALLY 100% related to
the golfer). On a 'philosophical level' -- for the same golfer, do you think
its 80% shaft performance versus 20% clubhead or something a bit more even?(
70/30, 50/50, etc.)

I have no idea why it matters but there's no harm askin.

JGG


------------------------------

From: "Luc Despars" <desparsl@sp-agency.ca>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 15:27:39 EDT
Subject: ShopTalk: Dynacraf Clubs

My thought are 70/30 for the shaft. You can have the best head on the
market but playing with the wrong flex will cause bad shots. (Actually,
most golfers with brand names clubs plays with shafts that are not proper
to their swing.) But even if you have the right flex, using a head that is
not proper to your game,(like those small blades), again it will result in
bad shots. So, this is the task of us, the clubmaker to get people to
understand that proper equipment means better result.

Luc Despars
desparsl@sp-agency.ca

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --------------------------------------------------------------


I believe that the clubhead is important in how it looks to the person
swinging the club. The weight of the head from one brand or style to
another is a factor but not quite as much as much as the first factor.

I still believe it may be pushing 90% in the shaft that determines the
club performance.